Developers › A Journal from Behind the Trenches

Poll: What should we focus on when developing Opera?

February 18, 2011 · by Haavard

I just added a new poll: What should we focus on when developing Opera?

You can find it in the right sidebar of my blog.

Note: Requests and bug reports do not belong here. Post them in the right place.

Readers' comments 50

Left under the original article, as archived; 1 page of comments could not be recovered.

KadaeFriday, February 18, 2011 6:31:40 PM
Opera Achievements. :]
Like this: http://files.myopera.com/Kadae/files/achievements.jpg
StanleyFriday, February 18, 2011 6:32:06 PM
no requests
GreLIFriday, February 18, 2011 6:42:15 PM
Since 10.5 it seems that Opera focused on new features ignoring bugs, so bug fixes are certainly necessary. But new features also are needed, including working on already introduced once (such as Background and Borders). Possibly most popular for now CSS Image Values and Replaced Content Module, most needed some Layout module (Flex or Grid). More work on HTML5.

It's sad that Opera added -o- prefix to border image :-(. Is it because of unimplemented “fill” keyword? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Aug/0024.html

So a balance is needed. Barracuda started very nice!
СергейFriday, February 18, 2011 6:54:14 PM
Need to introduce new features of course. To keep up with competitors. But now we must focus on fixing bugs. Remains very much of uncorrected errors. See, Mozilla delays the output of the final version of Firefox 4 again. Fixed bugs.
Do not throw any new features unfinished, but work on the old bugs.

Thanks!
Andrew G SnadenFriday, February 18, 2011 7:27:26 PM
Originally posted by lwiczek:

You mean system-wide, without any control from user? No thanks...

Have an option to turn auto-update off.

I think we should have access to older versions of desktop opera, like you can with Opera Mini, they are stable.
FavFriday, February 18, 2011 7:42:29 PM
Bug fixing for sure, since some Opera 10.x+ release, all my visited sites have messed up select forms (with scroll bars...)

2nd: not forcing things, aka allowing users to disable blue dots, tab stacking, etc
digitalinksmudgeFriday, February 18, 2011 7:58:47 PM
no requests
Martin RauscherFriday, February 18, 2011 8:03:46 PM
Of course both is important. If you don't develop new features you can't lead the market and with bugs nobody wants to use your great product...
magnitafonFriday, February 18, 2011 8:05:12 PM
If it's a valid option I'd say 75% for bugfixes and 25% for new features.
seriousFriday, February 18, 2011 8:12:04 PM
I miss "Enhancing current features"
Darko PantićFriday, February 18, 2011 8:22:47 PM
Originally posted by noisyandy:

I think we should have access to older versions of desktop opera

You have. Look in Opera archive.
Andrew G SnadenFriday, February 18, 2011 8:33:48 PM
Originally posted by pdarko:

You have. Look in Opera archive.

Thank you!
Andrew G SnadenFriday, February 18, 2011 8:55:47 PM
no requests
CyroFriday, February 18, 2011 9:08:51 PM
no requests
Thiago H. de Paula FigueiredoFriday, February 18, 2011 9:26:42 PM
For short term: fix existing bugs.
For long term: balance bugs and new features.

Bugs drives away more users than new features attract new ones, I guess.
osolomioFriday, February 18, 2011 10:26:48 PM
Originally posted by urbankosmina:

but my personal opinion is that people are more interested in stability and correct page rendering...

+1
Henrik HelmersFriday, February 18, 2011 10:33:29 PM
I'm voting for more polish!
Nathan RodriguezFriday, February 18, 2011 10:34:09 PM
Voted !
Andrew G SnadenFriday, February 18, 2011 10:39:02 PM
When you buy a new car, you expect it to be ready to drive away and to take it where you want. Imagine if the salesman said "It's OK, but you can't drive it through Los Angeles because it won't like it and will break down!" Yes, more polish, please before release.
ChrisFriday, February 18, 2011 10:49:15 PM
Originally posted by noisyandy:

When you buy a new car, you expect it to be ready to drive away and to take it where you want. Imagine if the salesman said "It's OK, but you can't drive it through Los Angeles because it won't like it and will break down!" Yes, more polish, please before release.
When you buy a car, you know there's a tradeoff between many different things. If you want a car that's friendly to the environment, it might not be fast. If you want it to be comfortable, it might not handle well. Your black and white analogy fails to address the fact that all software will have bugs.
ChrisFriday, February 18, 2011 10:55:48 PM
Originally posted by DjiXas:

Bug fixing for sure, since some Opera 10.x+ release, all my visited sites have messed up select forms (with scroll bars...)
Works here? Sounds like a problem with your setup.

2nd: not forcing things, aka allowing users to disable blue dots, tab stacking, etc
I don't think it's a good idea to make too many things optional. Opera needs to follow the vision set for the company and products.
Andrew G SnadenFriday, February 18, 2011 11:06:40 PM
Originally posted by Slamdex:

When you buy a car, you know there's a tradeoff between many different things. If you want a car that's friendly to the environment, it might not be fast. If you want it to be comfortable, it might not handle well. Your black and white analogy fails to address the fact that all software will have bugs.

Yes, but at least the car will go anywhere it's designed to (a 4x4 obvious being better off-road than a limo) where Opera will often fail to perform properly on many websites....how often have you had "not supported in this browser"? I get it frequently: however I will give it this; visit a dodgy webpage and you get a warning.
John A. Bilicki IIIFriday, February 18, 2011 11:44:59 PM
Besides multi-column layout (which has been confirmed as in the works though I haven't been able to detect it in the DOM or get it to work in the first 11.1 build) I'd like to see two things...

1.) Bug fixes like on my site's sidebar toggle (the parent overflow that scrolls and the toggle element's left positioning does not take the overflow parent element's scrollbar width in to consideration) and the form elements should have exactly one pixel of space around them however they have more in Opera.
http://www.jabcreations.com/

2.) GUI enhancements would be nice, I'd like to put the bookmarks toolbar on the address bar to the right and adjust the width accordingly. In Firefox I only use favicons on the bookmarks toolbar so they only take up about 600 pixels of width (on a 1920x1200 screen with my browsers always maximized except if I test lower resolutions). Besides that I think Opera's GUI is almost as customizable as Firefox's though not being able to merge toolbars really puts the hurt on wanting to use Opera.

Code-wise these are my priorities...
Primary
XMLHttpRequest 2
File API (if AJAX file uploads require this otherwise secondary)

Secondary
CSS3 3D Transforms
WebGL - 3D Canvas graphics
CSS3 Animation

That's really all the critical input I can give because frankly Opera is much easier browser to use than IE and Safari. Mozilla is really dropping the ball on the GUI, wasting time merging extensions in to the browser directly and not resolving long-standing bugs.

Thanks for the hard work!
webtaxSaturday, February 19, 2011 1:31:20 AM
i think a balance is best, but keeping a sane level of bugs around, so bug fixing is a must.

I voted bug fixing tough because i think lots of people are gonna vote for features.
webtaxSaturday, February 19, 2011 1:33:10 AM
lol at opera achievements, an extension with those could be good
Cutting SpoonSaturday, February 19, 2011 1:57:55 AM
Given the amount of time Firefox spends in beta hell, you'd think they would be more stable than Opera. Instead, Opera pushes decent builds out the door and follows up to catch anything that regressed. And the 11.1x project seems to be dealing with many older bugs and a deep change under the hood.

I feel that this balanced approach will remain the best, Haavard. Hoping they allow you to get some sleep though...
abhituxSaturday, February 19, 2011 2:44:52 AM
Originally posted by magnitafon:

If it's a valid option I'd say 75% for bugfixes and 25% for new features.

+1
TamilSaturday, February 19, 2011 4:36:57 AM
Option C.
d4rkn1ghtSaturday, February 19, 2011 5:25:24 AM
A balance!
imboxSaturday, February 19, 2011 6:44:03 AM
no trolling, please
AsiresSaturday, February 19, 2011 7:02:03 AM
Bugs are very specialised, most people don't see any bug. But new features are used by all people and make Opera competitive and noticeable on the browsers market. So it's time for some features, especially after huge bugfix list in a first Barracuda build
Originally posted by serious:

I miss "Enhancing current features"
+1
Daniel HendrycksSaturday, February 19, 2011 7:04:08 AM
The question seems as if it is asking 'how should Opera develop its versions?' not 'what should Opera's next version include' Of course I don't want perpetual bug fixing, in the next version I want it to be a bug fixing release, though.
BALAKRISHNASaturday, February 19, 2011 7:09:51 AM
no requests
FavSaturday, February 19, 2011 7:30:25 AM
Originally posted by Slamdex:

Works here? Sounds like a problem with your setup.

Same after fresh install (Windows as well).
Knut Remi "DrLaunch" LøvliSaturday, February 19, 2011 8:04:41 AM
Firstly I think you should focus on web app compatiblity and site patching. Things like Google Docs and the new Meebo are horrible in Opera.

Secondly, I think the default user experience should be more streamlined and easy to use. And welcoming.

I believe a lot of people are scared away when apps they use in other browsers are broken in Opera and the user interface is confusing. There are actually some good reasons to not use Opera today. But there shouldn't be any.
Andrew G SnadenSaturday, February 19, 2011 8:23:52 AM
no off-topic chatter
ChrisSaturday, February 19, 2011 9:38:25 AM
Originally posted by noisyandy:

Yes, but at least the car will go anywhere it's designed to (a 4x4 obvious being better off-road than a limo)
Thanks for proving my point. The limo looks better and is more comfortable, but at the expense of off-road driving. The 4x4 is ugly and not very comfortable, but it's great when driving off-road.

You just countered your own argument

Originally posted by drlaunch:

Firstly I think you should focus on web app compatiblity and site patching.
And they aren't already? Methinks someone needs to read changelogs and site patching blogs!

Originally posted by drlaunch:

Things like Google Docs and the new Meebo are horrible in Opera.
And that's because no one is focusing on them? I think not! If think logically about it, it's not a lack of focus. So it's quite rude of you to suggest such things.
Andrew G SnadenSaturday, February 19, 2011 9:49:55 AM
Originally posted by Slamdex:

Thanks for proving my point. The limo looks better and is more comfortable, but at the expense of off-road driving. The 4x4 is ugly and not very comfortable, but it's great when driving off-road.

You just countered your own argument

OK, point taken, but in the UK, a road vehicle has to be type approved before the model can go on sale...but then what can you expect for something that's free? Don't look a gift horse in the mouth....but I don't expect it drop dead when I first ride it.
glacheSaturday, February 19, 2011 10:00:57 AM
Originally posted by lwiczek:

there should be 4-5 options to fine-tune the preferences, something like:
- new features
- new features and some bug fixes
- balanced
- bug fixes but new stuff is welcomed
- only bug fixes

+1.

Originally posted by magnitafon:

If it's a valid option I'd say 75% for bugfixes and 25% for new features

+2.

Though I think we're cruising along well at the moment, e.g. I like how Opera keeps the interest up by including just one or two new features per major release. And obviously, as other people have mentioned, if we're gonna have new features, make sure they're as bug-free as possible.
Andylee SatoSaturday, February 19, 2011 11:06:36 AM
Originally posted by Kadae:

Opera Achievements. :]
Like this: http://files.myopera.com/Kadae/files/achievements.jpg

OMG! Yes, this is absolutely necessary! Make "using the browser" a challenging game that let's you collect points for using different features in different situations/combinations. Then create a high score on MyOpera and let us compete for place 1.
QuHnoSaturday, February 19, 2011 11:23:24 AM
Bug fixing!

The browser core must be as robust and reliable as possible. It must be able to deal with broken (X?|(HT)?)ML code, that exists in the wild, before it comes to manipulating it with JS or other features. It must not destroy the code more than it was before when trying to fix it. That could lead to less problems with some of the "problematic" sites and would make page specific fixes and manipulation easier.

New features are allowed to be buggy (at least as long as they are new), but the main core never.
SaskatchewanSaturday, February 19, 2011 11:38:45 AM
I voted for "A balance between fixing bugs and adding/polishing functinonality" (I just noticed that there's a typo in there ), but that balance is for me something like:
- bug fixing: 62.5%,
- polishing existing functionality: 25%,
- adding new functionality: 12.5%.
Stephen TurrellSaturday, February 19, 2011 11:52:36 AM
A balance between fixing bugs and adding/polishing functinonality is my vote

Keep on doing what you've always done its working great.
Andrew G SnadenSaturday, February 19, 2011 2:10:23 PM
Originally posted by Sk0l:

Greater compatibility with popular sites, only that.
Knut Remi "DrLaunch" LøvliSaturday, February 19, 2011 3:06:12 PM
Originally posted by Slamdex:

And they aren't already? Methinks someone needs to read changelogs and site patching blogs!

Originally posted by Slamdex:

And that's because no one is focusing on them? I think not! If think logically about it, it's not a lack of focus. So it's quite rude of you to suggest such things.
One: Because I don't have the time to read every changelog of every Opera snapshot I'm suddenly not allowed to voice my opinion? Give me a break here.

Two: I searched the changelogs again and couldn't find anything about my problems. That means I'm either dumb or you're the one being rude.

Three: I'm not going to take your flamebait. If you wish to speak to me again show some manners.
Andrew G SnadenSaturday, February 19, 2011 4:03:58 PM
Calm down, gentlemen, it's only a piece of software.
Mad Scientist (عادل)Saturday, February 19, 2011 5:32:11 PM
voted!
lucideerSaturday, February 19, 2011 7:40:50 PM
Originally posted by haavard:

Originally posted by serious:

I miss "Enhancing current features"
That's covered by the first option.
I voted the first option after reading this, but I agree with serious - I'd rather a distinct one differentiating "polish existing" and "introduce new" tbh.
MaximSaturday, February 19, 2011 8:25:51 PM
Personally I think this should be very well balanced. e.g. xx.00 releases should come with new features. xx.50 releases should be purely bug fixing/current features improvement. IMO this would give more time to come up and work on new features as well as give plenty of time to improve/fix.
JudSaturday, February 19, 2011 8:43:02 PM
Haavard, this could be construed as a bit of a trick question. When a page doesn't show as intended, it could be thought of as a bug, but maybe it's due to something another browser does that Opera doesn't (yet), so is this new capability?

Anyhow, my thoughts on an answer are divided. I want to see Opera work on as many sites as possible, yet there are convenience and time-saving features (such as mouse gestures) that make Opera uniquely quick and easy for me, and I certainly wouldn't mind if Opera came up with more such unique features.