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A first peek at Opera 15 for Computers comments
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Lars AnderssonTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:02:24 PM
The good: It is wicked fast.
The bad: It is so feature-starved that it makes Chrome look bloated.
It's obviously too early to judge Opera 15 based on this preview, I'll reserve judgment until it's closer to release and we can see which features get to return. 15 is not usable as a 12.15 replacement today, but it could be in the future. Time will tell.
Is there a list of advanced shortcuts anywhere?
The help page linked from settings only shows the basic shortcuts.
I've been able to find that Z and X (back/forward), 0 and 9 (zoom in and out, though curiously 0 and 9 on the numpad are not affected) are toggled by the advanced keyboard shortcuts setting.
King CrimsonTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:06:29 PM
Ugly version!
This is not Opera! This is a new skin for Chrome!
Opera is dead.
Andrew NguyenTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:08:29 PM
techlawsamTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:15:37 PM
mmorenoTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:21:08 PM
Originally posted by Daedalus:
Yes... like the Android version.
They said "Opera final for Android is here!" and it's the same f... s... than Opera Beta.
No bookmarks, no link... no Opera. And they say "final".
Let's see what happen with this version.
*continues crying*
NecromanTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:33:28 PM
Also I don't know a single person who wants Opera without the mail client. Just sayin...
Themistocles PapassilekasTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:37:51 PM
I personally think it's showing great promise. Waiting for the next version!
JanghouTuesday, May 28, 2013 3:41:06 PM
@Bruce, is userCSS coming back?
Setting CSS with extensions isn't the same, userCSS has different priorities.
Without userCSS you can't override inline !important rules.
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1579302
jrmp530Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:41:40 PM
[ Switching To Chromium wont increase your USERS ]
[ it DECREASE your USERS a LONGTIME Fan of your work ]
I'm Happy now with my new BROWSER.
Firefox 17.0.6 ESR.
rog-rTuesday, May 28, 2013 5:00:10 PM
why they named this skinned chrome browser to Opera?!
JamesTuesday, May 28, 2013 5:35:46 PM
Originally posted by ThiagoHP:
What he said. If Opera turns into Chrome I will not be happy. I will stay on 12.15 until I know which direction Opera are taking for the long-term.
ЕгорTuesday, May 28, 2013 5:39:31 PM
No Keyboad control (Shift + ←,↑,→,↓)
No MDI
No Visual Tabs
No tabs on the side (left/right)
No favorites (Why? Search in favorites in Opera 12 is very powerful and useful)
No Tab Stacking
This alpha version is very disappointing. Hope you bring back most of Opera 12 features.
For now: Opera 12 -> auto update -> off
Joel SpadinTuesday, May 28, 2013 6:32:00 PM
Also, Stash seems pretty similar to my Tab Vault extension. As such, here are a few features (mostly from Tab Vault) that would make Stash even better:
Jeff YangTuesday, May 28, 2013 6:41:10 PM
Opera becomes extremely fast with a new core, but other features deserves equal attention and support.
ifox1Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:03:16 PM
artmilTuesday, May 28, 2013 7:27:51 PM
Originally posted by ifox1:
No
harley94Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:49:08 PM
Sure the Stash thing looks pretty intersting for me but i miss a lot of features.
There a almost every features which keep me on Opera gone. And I'm not talking about the mail or RSS function. I'm talking about tab-stagging, tab-locking, sidepanel, searchshortcuts and all the other little functions which make opera so cool and fast.
Next 15 isn't Opera anymore. Its a Opera-lookalike skin for Chrome. If this is your intetion and your planing to build a real (blink-based) Opera than everything is ok.
If not than you are on the wrong way.
If you are hoping to get a higher marketshare than you are probably on the right way. But you are loosing all your loyally fans.
beastie1Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:55:24 PM
LerxsterTuesday, May 28, 2013 7:59:16 PM
Opera 12 was my Leatherman... Opera 15 is a knife.... Why would I want to give up all those tools for one?!
"reduce the footprint of the program" With mail and O15 the install is 37mb. O12 is 12mb....?! Does not compute!
I may use OMail but will ditch Opera for something else...
RoelVBTuesday, May 28, 2013 8:20:42 PM
I've read about a lot of features that I use dissapeared in Opera 15. I'm using Opera for as long as I can remember, since version 6 or 7.
Al these years I've been proud to be an Opera user, a lot of my friends and co-workers switches to Opera because of me. With Opera 15 there is no reason to recommend Opera anymore.
I hope this is just a proof of concept build, if not, I'm going to use Opera 12 for as long as I can, I really don't know how to live without it.
Constantine VesnaTuesday, May 28, 2013 8:38:49 PM
- First of all: it works. No crashes to my experience. This is quite nice, as this is first (!) public build which uses completely new engine,
- there are some bad things: so many essential UI features are missing, but i hope its all because this is just a first public build (1,2, rocker gestures, ui customisation, F4, opera:config, chrome:flags, site prefrences, content blocker, no visual tabs), F3 menu is lagging, downloads tab is ugly, wonky tab behaviour (rightmost tab is jumping, old chrome's bug), zooming does not affect checkboxes (old chrome bug) and is much worse that it was in presto, bad tab visibility, chrome's bad text selection, spell check does not work, etc...
But:
- you can save your tab session as Speed Dial folder.
- Ctrl+F12 menu is now a tab, which has url.
- while Closed-tabs button (Trash Bin) is missing from main UI, but its present in O-menu.
- opera:plugins is present in this build, and plugins can be disabled.
- there is web inspector, at least.
- you can install as USB or per user or in different folder (just like with old Opera)
- window colors are obeying System color scheme (finally!)
- opera's ui is not blocked by for( ;; ){} loop in console (like in Firefox), and alert does not block switching tabs (but its still ugly like in chrome).
p.s.: you can view-source internal opera pages
Congratulations to dev team for their hard work! Eagerly waiting for the next builds!
rseilerTuesday, May 28, 2013 8:39:28 PM
I've never seen a program able to do that before.
Rafael LuikTuesday, May 28, 2013 9:31:25 PM
Originally posted by c69:
Reading the html comments in the settings page.Constantine VesnaTuesday, May 28, 2013 9:40:15 PM
i can open 50 tabs, and Opera does not crash,
but i cannot do anything with them
And whom we should complain about broken zoom now ? To Blink bugzilla ? coz, i guess, Opera will not be doing such a deep updates / pull request to the engine, which my prove incompatible and get rejected.
thshdwTuesday, May 28, 2013 10:10:35 PM
I would like to see the following features return.
1. Period to search.
2. Tab stacking
3. Tab trash can
4. Notes
5. Dragonfly
6. Bookmarks, I cant seem to find them in the Mac version.
7. Tab Pinning
8. Private Tabs
9. alt tab (on the mac) to tab switch
10. Tab Sessions
Other thoughts.... Losing integrated M2 is a downer. Stash is pretty cool.
bentronicTuesday, May 28, 2013 10:24:38 PM
I'm not totally against M2 as separate, as long as it doesn't get thrown out entirely.
As other people have said, I don't see how Opera is differentiating itself from Chrome. Maybe the issue is that they are losing users to Chrome where they have large userbases (eastern Europe), but still, the idea that Opera was the browser to use if you weren't afraid of features is just gone. It's disappointing.
streammylibraryTuesday, May 28, 2013 10:33:16 PM
NO ADVANCED SETTINGS!!!!!!
No UI control.
No individual website settings
OPERA FUCKING DRAGONFLY!!!!!!!!!!!
Can't modify the source code with right click and view source.
No tab management.
Shit loads of other features missing as pointed out by others above me.
Discover? No one gives a shit about discover. There are plenty apps, extension and websites for that.
This release stinks of Google Chrome.
Its brilliant how you managed to take out every single feature I loved about this browser and made another image of Google Chrome. Give me one reason why I should stay with Opera and not move on to Chrome.
Chrome has better support for websites, more extensions, plugins, faster. Only reason people used Opera was for the features, customizations and control that came with it. Unless I (and I think millions other) see those features in the final version, its goodbye Opera
Next time atleast ask the consumers what they want before you decide to make some major changes.
bentronicTuesday, May 28, 2013 10:33:47 PM
Christian ThieleTuesday, May 28, 2013 11:32:31 PM
Rafael LuikTuesday, May 28, 2013 11:59:52 PM
Originally posted by APPER:
Opera 15 even in preview version is already different from the others. http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/63102732?startidx=1050#comment108231252Originally posted by APPER:
They didn't say they wouldn't bring back features.streammylibraryWednesday, May 29, 2013 12:52:34 AM
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Just wanna point out that most of the features people keep mentioning are already replaced by Chrome looking shit. If I wanted those 'good-looking good-for-nothing features' I would just use chrome. The entire release is full of chrome's 'for-the-dumb people' design. Its like using android (even though android is google product) and then going for iOS. You can't do shit on iOS.
KerenSkyyWednesday, May 29, 2013 12:56:28 AM
i guess we will wait & see what makes it back in, i wonder to what degree the readers of this blog represent opera users.
ttxmanWednesday, May 29, 2013 1:38:02 AM
All other features i am currently using in opera are gone.
- Panels, M2, RSS, IRC - THE Killer feature combination, I have browser opened 100% time when OS is running (and probably on top on 1 of my LCDs) and i really like the blue icon in opera when email, rss or IRC message arrives. And now i will have to revert to 4 aplications running in tray?
-Site preferences - solution to pages with wrongly set encoding, enabling flash or disabling JS on specific pages gone too.
-Dragonfly - best browser web debugging/developing tool. Gone!
-Block content - i am removing only annoying ads, but i need it.
-My old Good keyboard shortcuts gone :/ (i am using opera from version 6 something)
-Transfers changed into nearly unusable something.
-Wand!!!
-Link!!!
If you wanted larger userbase you should add XMPP client. Integrated support for Twitter and facebook in mail and chat accounts. Integrate better torrent client (like Tixati or something), Simply to add the features and not remove them all.. Then start Ad campaign about social browser or something..
I am using Opera for about 13 years, i will wait for few months and then, if there are no changes, i am switching to the FF or IE or some project that will surely emerge for the 40milions+ of opera desktop users begging for Opera 12 replacement..
streammylibraryWednesday, May 29, 2013 1:44:36 AM
Khaled KhalilWednesday, May 29, 2013 2:18:47 AM
I see none of Opera other than the logo.
The newly clarified point here is that you chose to build your new product upon chromium and not only use one of khml's forks for chromium extension market.
The point that you have little respect of Opera's loyal users was cleared months earlier.
For another elegant shell of Chromium, will your browser support multitasking, as a separate process for each page ? it's probably the only feature I know of that Chrome/Chromium have and Opera 12 lacked. and it makes an important point for comparing between Chromium clones.
Rafael LuikWednesday, May 29, 2013 2:39:53 AM
Originally posted by streammylibrary:
I don't mind, it's equally easily accesible... At least the arrow is gone, the trash can was much more user-friendly.Originally posted by Khaled-Khalil:
Widget toolkit? They needed to developed the new version from scratch, nothing from the old Opera is there. Maybe panels will be back in next updates, or most likely the really used ones in another shape (like notes and windows panel).Originally posted by Khaled-Khalil:
Look harder.Originally posted by Khaled-Khalil:
Yes Opera 15 has per-tab multi-process.RandWednesday, May 29, 2013 3:08:07 AM
Essentially all customization and advanced functions have been removed, I won't list everything as many users have done so already. The bookmark functionality is... simply not adequate, at all.
If this IS intended, and Opera is desired to be a fixed basic browsing platform that is Chrome with a slightly different aesthetic and a few different features and not intended to be Opera of old but using Webkit PLEASE tell us up front now so those that desire something different can begin transitioning to another browser.
The advanced users will leave Opera regardless if this is the design intent, I'm sure your aware of that so rather then leave us hanging and put up with a multitude of posts about functionality you no longer desire I hope you'll tell us ASAP.
If this is merely a first step, and a showcase that the engine is functional I'm fine and I imagine most of us would be much more comfortable if this is clearly stated.
streammylibraryWednesday, May 29, 2013 3:32:26 AM
Originally posted by Rand:
Looking at the "full and final opera for android" I doubt that is the case. More than half of the features are missing from the "full and final opera for android" including advanced settings. They are trying to copy Chrome too much but they forget that people won't chose Opera over Chrome if both of them have the same content.
Chrome beta has data compression using proxy (similar to Opera turbo / Off-Road mode) and so do other browsers. Now every incentive to stay with Opera for Android is gone!!! Opera for Android provides nothing more than any other browser can.
Chrome for Android has chrome:flags but opera doesnt have opera:config ...
kafeneWednesday, May 29, 2013 4:20:38 AM
Rafael LuikWednesday, May 29, 2013 5:11:28 AM
Originally posted by Rand:
Bye!Originally posted by mcovey:
Not everyone uses bookmarks, I know people that don't. Speed Dial groups can be an effective simpler replacement. Maybe it needs some kind of ajustment, like more "folder" levels but in the desktop you can even rename the items and search them. The generation of thumbnails for 300+++ bookmarks worries me though.A876Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:20:00 AM
I really liked Opera 12.15. Almost enough to replace Firefox.
It pretty much did everything right. It let me turn on the "old-style" File-Edit-View ... menu.
It is a little crashy, but only about the same as Firefox.
The feature I admire the most in Opera 12.15 is its Bookmark search function, which shows the folders of all the bookmarks that it finds! In Firefox, you have to export Bookmarks as HTML, and then open and search Bookmarks.html. As before, I am still waiting for the others to catch up.
The feature I dislike the most in Opera 12.15 is the inability to open a Bookmark in a new window or tab from the Bookmarks menu. You have to open a new tab or window, and then use the Bookmarks menu. Also, you can't only delete, edit, or move a Bookmark in that menu. You can do any of these things from the Bookmarks sidebar or the Bookmarks Manager. Silly little oversight. If not for this, I might have used Opera 12.15 primarily. Now I probably should be glad I didn't.
Opera has had a tiny share for a long time now. Now it appears that they are just plain committing suicide.
Opera decided to switch layout engines, from Presto to Blink (the same as Google Chrome) for Opera 15. But the change is more pervasive. The preview of Opera 15 looks like Google Chrome, except that it is stripped down to even less functionality. Even Bookmarks is gone. Everything distinctive and wonderful about Opera is also missing. They haven't said which features they plan to add back, if any.
Now I have to worry about Firefox too. Their significant share is slowly dwindling, in spite of continuous improvement. Stupid little bugs that annoy me every day just linger. (Drag a shortcut onto the Desktop or a folder. The created Internet Shortcut unnecessarily points to an icon file, and that icon file is usually broken. (Tested on Windows XP))
h143570Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:28:38 AM
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
So because some people don't use it nobody should be able to?! Opera was always about options and customization. I simply unable to comprehend why they need to kill the bookmarks. Because it is extremely week justification that there are user how don't use it. Even Microsoft had the decency to allow ignoring Metro/Modern UI in most cases and just use the plain old desktop. Hell they even willing to fix it with Blue as a FREE update. Microsoft better than Opera from decency point of view, I have never thought I would see this day.
I have a feeling that they have disabled the bookmarks, because in the background they are using that feature to provide Stash and the "new" Speed dial. Which should be ok as long as the rest of us can access to that underlying functionality.
The first thing Opera competitors had done, is to add grouping to Speed dials after they have copied it in a few days.
Those who think that the old features will coming back, just take a look what has happened to Opera Mobil 14. If they did it once they will do it again and they will keep doing until they go bankrupt. without an exact road map on the old features nobody form the core user base will wait.
Hack My BrainWednesday, May 29, 2013 7:00:49 AM
I saw an employee tweeted that bookmarks were replaced by speed dial.
No bookmarks? So no bookmarkbar. I have to open a new tab before every time I access a marked site? And I have to pack a simple bookmarklet up into an extension? What a terrible idea.
Rafael LuikWednesday, May 29, 2013 7:03:33 AM
Originally posted by h143570:
You can still have "bookmarks", you just need to add the pages to the Speed Dial. I know it's different from the "classic" list view of bookmarks, but is that bad? Why?Originally posted by h143570:
The browser was made from scratch, they aren't using any "background". And they'd be able to use the "background" of bookmarks to provide Speed Dial and Stash, but not Bookmarks themselves? That doesn't make any sense and of course they're able to replicate bookmarks functionality (1. they did it before and 2. it wouldn't even be that hard as they can copy and paste from Chrome itself).Originally posted by h143570:
What Opera competitors? I haven't seen any browser with an endless customizable Speed Dial, let alone having groups.Originally posted by h143570:
I've seen improvement from the first beta of Opera 14 for Android to the final version. I've tested them all and I can't find you giving feedback in any topic or blog post about it. I can see a lot of users are doing just fine with 14.0 by the 5 star ratings in the Play Store, I still use 12.1 because it works best for me but hey there'll be a 14.x or 15.0! The same for desktop. It ain't over until the fat lady sings.ShaaselWednesday, May 29, 2013 7:15:42 AM
I don't need another Chrome, I need Opera.
Don't be a browser which follow the others and continue innovating and make me happy to surf on the Web.
And by the way, sorry for my bad english.
netwolfWednesday, May 29, 2013 7:27:35 AM
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
That's a nice example that shows how wrong and blinded you (and the few other remaining fanboys) are: of course it is not equally easily accessible at all, that's obvious!
Previously, it took exactly one click to open the list, and one to choose the item to reopen.
Now it is one click to open the menu, another one to open the list, and then finally the last click to re-open the closed page.
So actually the way to go before you reach the list of closed tabs has doubled.
Additionally, 100% of the customization possibilities are gone.
E.g. I had a custom button instead of the default arrow which immediately opened the most recently closed tab on a short click and opened the list of closed tabs on a longer click.
So besides the more cumbersome standard usage, the advaced usage and customization of this feature has been totally destroyed.
Please tell me, how in the world can you talk about "equally easily accesible"?
To me this is an example representative for many of the changes of v15 that only bring disadvantages, but not a single advantage in return (or if, they are so tiny that you really have to look and think hard to find them...).
Rafael LuikWednesday, May 29, 2013 8:37:26 AM
Originally posted by netwolf:
Stop! It takes two clicks, opening the list only requires hover. It isn't like advanced math or like it has been buried in the history menu like Firefox or only available in a new tab like in Chrome.Originally posted by netwolf:
The point is, for the very first release, is that really needed? What % of users use custom buttons at all?Things unrelated to moving custom buttons or bars arround differentiate Opera for me (I mean I don't do any of that kind of customization). They're not yet present in the new Opera version but this is the first public version from a browser UI that has been made out of zero. 15 is a fake number, think about it as NewOpera 2.0...
They need to launch 15 (or 16 final as they may jump 15 too) soon because 12.15 became really slow in sites like Facebook and Twitter and having issues with new websites everyday (like Google Hangouts) and this is harming millions (the majority aren't techie users) which are more likely to drop Opera each day that passes by us (the users that care more about speed and pages working properly than customizability are far superior in number).
I doubt you'll be able to create a custom button and move it around the whole UI in 15.0 final. If you do Opera will get me really really impressed, I'll have no words. In any case, watch for 15.x or 16 and 17 after that. Just hold to 12.15 a little longer while the majority of users that don't customize get a new Opera with new cool features, speed and "pages working", it's going to be simple.
artmilWednesday, May 29, 2013 9:49:15 AM
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
I don't give a f** what percentage of the users use the customization options, i do...
80% of the worlds population are idiots... if that's operas target fine... but i don't need a browser for idiots...
Bill PWednesday, May 29, 2013 9:52:24 AM
What are all those devs who used to do the rendering engine working on? Surely not a simplified interface, maybe this is just a way to cut back on staffing and r&d to save expenses and raise profits.
Sadden I am
JanghouWednesday, May 29, 2013 10:22:27 AM
Originally posted by Bill_P:
Be glad. When they make no profit there is no opera.
That's economics and that pre-dates the internet era. Remember the internet bubble and Myspace (once worth $580 million).
The new extensions API looks more powerful to me, at first sight,
Can someone shed light on what was possible for devs in Opera Presto and isn't in 15.
This springs to mind:
- userCSS
- userJS, content script doesn't seem to have the same power (magic functions)
- urlblocking/filtering WITHOUT javascript.