I know they say next month after mobile version is published at the end of this, but... any insider news?
Not next month, its just 2 days away! Android version will be released on 25th of this month, and we might also get a snapshot of desktop version!
zarathosSaturday, February 23, 2013 5:30:24 PM
Originally posted by oldawy:
why is it bad mistake
Because browser users dont know and dont care about engine in their browser. They "care" about what is cool and most advertized. So Safari for iOS, IE for most normal Windows users, Firefox for most "not-normal" Windows users.
Opera moving on webkit wont make it popular. It will be just Opera on webkit. Opera that is not very popular now. You really think that common Joe will jump on Opera because of webkit? He wont know what webkit is. He knows, that his Apple has Safari (so it has to be cool cause iWhatever is cool), that IE is part of MS on his desktop/laptop (so it has to be good), he saw adverts of Chrome (Google - da best search engine, so Chrome from that has to be good).
And Opera? It's the place whre you go to hear music and watch people in weird dresses? Opera on webkit? What's webkit... oh, therewill be web in Opera? Cool, I could twitt about the opera I watch. Perhaps hear some net radio. Great. Opera with net - cool thing.
Opera is a browser for people who know what they want from browser, not for those who want to browse the net and watch movies. Or better to say: it was for such people. Now it will be just another webkit monster.
LinuxMint7Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:21:26 PM
Originally posted by zarathos:
Because browser users dont know and dont care about engine in their browser. They "care" about what is cool and most advertized. So Safari for iOS, IE for most normal Windows users, Firefox for most "not-normal" Windows users.
Opera moving on webkit wont make it popular. It will be just Opera on webkit. Opera that is not very popular now. You really think that common Joe will jump on Opera because of webkit? He wont know what webkit is. He knows, that his Apple has Safari (so it has to be cool cause iWhatever is cool), that IE is part of MS on his desktop/laptop (so it has to be good), he saw adverts of Chrome (Google - da best search engine, so Chrome from that has to be good).
And Opera? It's the place whre you go to hear music and watch people in weird dresses? Opera on webkit? What's webkit... oh, therewill be web in Opera? Cool, I could twitt about the opera I watch. Perhaps hear some net radio. Great. Opera with net - cool thing.
Opera is a browser for people who know what they want from browser, not for those who want to browse the net and watch movies. Or better to say: it was for such people. Now it will be just another webkit monster.
I totally agree with this, And lol'd at it too, It's so sad but so true, Sadly.
woj-tekSaturday, February 23, 2013 7:29:16 PM
Originally posted by mubaidr:
Not next month, its just 2 days away! Android version will be released on 25th of this month, and we might also get a snapshot of desktop version!
It won't be released, it will be presented...
mubaidrSaturday, February 23, 2013 7:49:14 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
It won't be released, it will be presented...
Thats strange Considering that they are working on it for quite a few months, i think it is released! Anyway, i am interested in Desktop snapshot only!
AbandonShip?Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:46:27 AM
Originally posted by mubaidr:
i think it is released! Anyway, i am interested in Desktop snapshot only!
better with patience ( THE real actual) Opera with webkit hearth than a fast rushed "yet an other" Chrome-Copy
mubaidrSunday, February 24, 2013 7:10:18 AM
Originally posted by masterofopera:
better with patience ( THE real actual) Opera with webkit hearth than a fast rushed "yet an other" Chrome-Copy
I know desktop version will take long, i was talking about Android version that is might be released this 25th.
YongShunSunday, February 24, 2013 8:22:32 AM
Opera at its best triumps Chrome.
I hate Chrome's loading of tabs that takes a few seconds before it redraws the pages when you have more than 5 tabs open.
Opera used to be able to handle it, until the recent versions it became a bit crappy. but still fairs much better than chrome.
smooth scrolling on opera honestly is the best for text on opera compared to chrome.
lastly, i can't live without PANELS!
Constantine VesnaSunday, February 24, 2013 1:25:32 PM
We still need to see Opera Ice. MWC opens tomorrow, so at least we will see mobile version.
As for desktop, anything else, but "fit-to-width" and .oex extensions, is not confirmed to be cut. (We can expect torrent client, irc chat and dragonfly to be killed, but nothing is confirmed yet).
Yandex Browser (Chromium clone) uses Opera Turbo, so i don't see particular reason to why some nice features of Opera cannot migrate to the Chromium version.
tl;dr: there is no point in bashing Opera or demanding anything before we see the product. Because we have not seen neither features, nor bugs. And development has started in early 2012, so most important choises were already done by this time.
netwolfSunday, February 24, 2013 3:10:43 PM
Originally posted by Constantine Vesna:
And development has started in early 2012, so most important choises were already done by this time.
Source? (not because I don't trust you, just out of interest and because there are hardly any official infos about - well - anything...)
ahoj1234Sunday, February 24, 2013 4:26:31 PM
Originally posted by netwolf:
Source?
official Opera's conference. (ok, maybe an unofficial conference - they pull it back and the video from it has under copyright)
(at 1:36) "no need to have a tab somewhere". So now tabs get removed? Can I be the judge on the whether I need a tab or not? For example: I want to visit google maps, but I DO NOT want my browser to save on what I zoomed in about. What if I want to compare information on several different websites? Going back and forth between those will start to get troublesome pretty easy. Even IE is more advanced than that...
(at 1:55) "visual search" because thumbnails of a site easily show what the page was about. You can (for example) use it to 'quickly' recognize that one youtube video between the 100 other youtube videos... Or that 1 page of a certain topic and you don't know what site it was on... I think safari already has this (and on the desktop it's ridiculously slow)
(at 2:53) "the browser doesn't tell you anything about security" so there is no visual verification that my connection is safe? I already hate that, I like a small verification somewhere
I'm now hoping that none of those 'features' come to the desktop and also that the animations can be turned off, as I want to close a page instantly or go to another page instantly and not wait 2 seconds for some stupid animation to kick in... Switching to a different firefox (on my android) in 5, 4, 3 ... done.
MossManMonday, February 25, 2013 7:08:43 AM
Originally posted by ahoj1234:
Originally posted by netwolf:
Source?
official Opera's conference. (ok, maybe an unofficial conference - they pull it back and the video from it has under copyright)
Michael ThompsonMonday, February 25, 2013 7:31:42 AM
Originally posted by MossMan:
Well that... didn't really excite me at all.
Agree, I actually disliked it.
ahoj1234Monday, February 25, 2013 9:41:42 AM
Originally posted by sirnh1:
I'm now hoping that none of those 'features' come to the desktop
Me too. But these couldn't work on desktop. Try to imagine "back"... mouse on 23" monitor for visual back etc... this is for mobiles/tablets.
Originally posted by MossMan:
Well that... didn't really excite me at all.
I am exited and interested I really like that. For tablets/mobiles it really seems nice and I'm ready to install a first alpha build
Tomáš PavlíkMonday, February 25, 2013 9:57:34 AM
I think that most of Opera users don't even know anything about Presto, Webkit or Chromium.Its like: "Webkit? What is that?" Well... im a frustrated and scared. I love -Opera and im worrying about her future. We"ll see...
netwolfMonday, February 25, 2013 10:02:01 AM
Reminds me a bit of Windows 8 on desktops, a usability disaster...
s/ashMonday, February 25, 2013 11:08:12 AM
Originally posted by netwolf:
Reminds me a bit of Windows 8 on desktops, a usability disaster...
this! +1
Do not make Opera a-la-Windows8 style.
MossManMonday, February 25, 2013 11:48:07 AM
During that video I kept thinking along the lines of "so what" and "how is that better than the current method?"...
Sorry Huib, but apart from adding some swiping & animation to the back/forward, security warning and adding-to-speed-dial/tabs(*) your idea seems like a big dumb-down to me.
(*) Especially tabs! You're going to remove normal multi-tabbed browsing... really?!?!?!?!?!?!§,§?!,k§,!?!,!,!,!,§,ui§MopK!
In contrast, I've already found that I would like more of Opera's current desktop control in Opera Mobile (content-blocking, better password management, etc.). It already feels too crippled for my taste and you're just going to take away the relatively few "buttons" we currently have!
Will you contribute the support for color management of images using ICC Profiles? When you implemented it Chrome seemed to be the only modern browser not to support it... Or they have done it till now?
Edit: Just have checked it. It's working! Good news.
So, along other things update their SVG support.
Michael FadelyMonday, February 25, 2013 6:53:14 PM
Originally posted by Azrael1:
And that's what's exactly NOT going to happen, simply because the effort in converting all those features to the new javascript engine is going to be huge and they are not going to bother with it. They are even admitting that publicly - from the TechCrunch's article: We're coming out with a brand new UI, brand new product in Q3.
I guess I can't argue with this, but at the very least I doubt that it will be unfamiliar to Opera users, and I also doubt that they won't port over some of its core productivity features. In the end, if there's one thing I care about, it's that.
I'll be honest here: Opera's performance isn't what it used to be--or rather, it's better, but... less consistent. (I sure love it when my browser uses 1GB of RAM even though it hasn't been doing anything but sitting in the background, with or without extensions)
If it weren't for the fact that I like its various features which have yet to be sufficiently replicated in some other browser, I'd probably be using Chrome already. If switching to webkit is going to allow them to focus on making a better shell for an engine that they don't have to worry about (as much, as they clearly stated they'd be doing some development on it too), then more power to them.
An Opera employee explaining the Webkit based Opera Mobile for Android to a customer.
He sounds like @brucel
Anyway, we see Mini and Mobile are combined in this one with off-road mode, and it works on Android 2.3, and its using newer webkit, than Chrome for Android, and overall - it looks nice.
Now lets just wait and see how it will all turn out on desktop.
Tomáš PavlíkTuesday, February 26, 2013 1:06:28 AM
If Opera Mobile looks like this...
Imagine Chromium with "O" logo and icon. I'd rather disconnect internet for good then .
DanielTuesday, February 26, 2013 6:48:43 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
@up
is it me or does it look very chrome-like, except for the Opera logo in the upper right corner?! O_x
No, it's not just you...
I fear the desktop version will also look like chrome with an opera-icon in its upper right corner.
oldawyTuesday, February 26, 2013 9:27:35 PM
i am sure they won't do just that it will be really disappointing if it was another chrome i am getting worried all the sudden
AlexWednesday, February 27, 2013 1:53:49 AM
I've been using Opera as my 1st choice browser for years and liked Presto engine, but decision to change to Webkit might also be right. RIP Presto, up untill mid 2012 you were best, but the recent 2013 releases made you almost unusable. Good luck Opera with the new Venture, hope it is for the best.
P.S. although WebKit is a better engine, Gecko would be a more suitable choice for Opera if you firmly decided to "outsource" the rendering engine development. At least it would have kept your reputation of an independent developer.
KerenSkyyWednesday, February 27, 2013 2:48:15 AM
Originally posted by vux777:
so far, this is only news I could findhttp://techcrunch.com/2013/02/25/opera-spins-off-its-advertising-business-into-opera-mediaworks-making-opera-easier-to-acquire/
thanks.
FireFFFUUUWednesday, February 27, 2013 2:54:44 PM
Originally posted by lekso81:
P.S. although WebKit is a better engine, Gecko would be a more suitable choice for Opera if you firmly decided to "outsource" the rendering engine development. At least it would have kept your reputation of an independent developer.
A change of this kind can only be justified for a technical improvement. Improvements subjective/political/religious shouldn't matter. Furthermore, if the desire was to kept a reputation of independence, then don't change was the option.
From any point of view, Gecko is the worst option. Has serious issues memory leaks, probably unresolved entirely or completely unsolved, in addition is "non-independent" because is developed by a single corporation, while Webkit is developed by a group of corporations. Also Mozilla doesn't shine by developed good software, the fact that for 10 years and 20 versions have a slow boot software, memory leaks, lack of features, being behind the standards, high resource consumption, lag, "Firefox has frozen", "Firefox is not responding", etc, while they have enjoyed having many millions of dollars, speaks about bad software developed. Of course (some people) by being "Mozilla" always maintain an image of being the good guys, but objectively, technically are a bad choice.
EricJHWednesday, February 27, 2013 7:54:15 PM
Memory leaks in FF caused by extensions has been fixed in one of the recent builds.
flatterWednesday, February 27, 2013 9:15:13 PM
Hey guys! Have you seen yandex browser? I think new opera will be like that one. http://browser.yandex.ru
QuHnoWednesday, February 27, 2013 9:24:56 PM
Originally posted by EricJH:
Memory leaks in FF caused by extensions has been fixed in one of the recent builds.
Startup time was reduced and overall speed was increased drastically too. Even the latest Chromium starts slower than Firefox and reacts slower on user input on my machine.
FransWednesday, February 27, 2013 10:42:07 PM
Originally posted by QuHno:
Startup time was reduced and overall speed was increased drastically too. Even the latest Chromium starts slower than Firefox and reacts slower on user input on my machine.
+1
Not to mention Firefox seldom crashes or freezes on me, while Chromium is almost guaranteed to, although it seems to have improved slightly over the past year. Yet I use Firefox far more often.
In any case, just like Chromium != Webkit, Firefox != Gecko. K-Meleon and for that matter Firefox Mobile show that Gecko can perform well.
AlexWednesday, February 27, 2013 11:50:23 PM
Originally posted by FFFUUUFox:
A change of this kind can only be justified for a technical improvement. Improvements subjective/political/religious shouldn't matter. Furthermore, if the desire was to kept a reputation of independence, then don't change was the option.
On one hand, if you read the above in the thread referenced techcrunch article then it seems to be a budget-motivated decision - probably, media business is considered to be more profitable than the browser development. On the other hand, press release by Bruce Lawson looks honest, so we'll see. Will Opera stay same Opera as we love it - this is a another question.
EDIT: Just found this article: http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/18/opera-shrinks-in-house-developer-team-as-it-prepares-shift-to-webkit/ "Digi.no reports that a team of around 100 Opera developers in its Core Technology division has shrunk by more than 90 positions, with “a large contingent” taking a severance package before Christmas — “including veterans Yngve Pettersen, André Shultz and Lasse Magnussen” — and a further 50 to 70 taking redundancy in January."
Looks like the most of the core development team has been slashed and Opera will just concentrate on building additional "services", so yes, to become sort a media company. This is sad
QuHnoThursday, February 28, 2013 7:16:27 AM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
In any case, just like Chromium != Webkit (...)
yeah, but we will get Chromium:
It's built using the open-source Chromium browser as one of its components.
(quote from the blog post above to point it out)
So while a webkit based browser can indeed be very fast as you can see if you use the webkit engine in Lunascape Orion (a highly configurable triple engine browser) it could be possible that Opera will be not...
FireFFFUUUThursday, February 28, 2013 9:27:27 PM
Originally posted by EricJH:
Memory leaks in FF caused by extensions has been fixed in one of the recent builds.
Originally posted by QuHno:
Startup time was reduced and overall speed was increased drastically too....
The same thing they have said since Firefox exist.
I stopped using Firefox when I got tired of hearing it in all "the latest version". Also I know that when a new version, all people repeat and believe the told by the Mozilla's advertising (very good publicity machine, by the way). The placebo has made that Firefox has "resolved" the problems lots of times.
By the way, the memory leaks weren't only because the extensions (the eternal scapegoat), about a year ago also (finally) admitted that it was because his Gecko and javascript engine. Of course, they say they "have resolved".
Anyway, even if they have been resolved this time, it happened "yesterday", Do you really trust a development team whose product-star was really defectiveCRAP for nearly 10 years and more than 10 versions?.
Originally posted by lekso81:
On one hand, if you read the above in the thread referenced techcrunch article then it seems to be a budget-motivated decision - probably, media business is considered to be more profitable than the browser development. On the other hand, press release by Bruce Lawson looks honest, so we'll see. Will Opera stay same Opera as we love it - this is a another question.
I understand. Therefore, as the main motiviación was budget, this occurs; if the main motivation was "independence", would not change.
EricJHThursday, February 28, 2013 10:18:57 PM
Originally posted by FFFUUUFox:
Originally posted by EricJH:
Memory leaks in FF caused by extensions has been fixed in one of the recent builds.
By the way, the memory leaks weren't only because the extensions (the eternal scapegoat), about a year ago also (finally) admitted that it was because his Gecko and javascript engine. Of course, they say they "have resolved".
Anyway, even if they have been resolved this time, it happened "yesterday",
I did not suggest this. I know that memory leaks in extensions have been a problem for a long time and that got solved. It does not say anything about other memory leaks which may exist. I am not a FF user so it is not something that has my attention
Do you really trust a development team whose product-star was really defectiveCRAP for nearly 10 years and more than 10 versions?.
That's a leading question.
lylijinchengFriday, March 1, 2013 8:17:50 AM
so sad In memory of Geir Ivarsøy.
MossManFriday, March 1, 2013 9:29:43 AM
I will be very, very, very annoyed if M2 is dropped. My wife is on Thunderbird (following a couple of versions when M2 indexing had some issues) - so if even that mailer is stagnating, where does that leave me? I am *not* going to leave all my mail in the cloud - so don't anyone suggest using GMail, etc.
Are there any good, innovative, non-bloated mailers still active out there? I believe we chose Thunderbird for my wife since it seemed to be the best option at the time, but now even that might not be a long-term solution...
woj-tekFriday, March 1, 2013 10:24:22 AM
@up actually I believe there is not - from all my test either M2 or Thunderbird... the latter is not developed anymore and the former may be dropped :| and yes - "web apps" sucks big time :|
QuHnoFriday, March 1, 2013 11:27:14 AM
Originally posted by FFFUUUFox:
Originally posted by QuHno:
Startup time was reduced and overall speed was increased drastically too....
The same thing they have said since Firefox exist.
Just for clarification: Not "they" have said it, I wrote it here after I tested it while I was looking for viable alternatives if the new w****t Opera should fail for me and I wrote "on my machine". The only way to get data that are relevant to you is to test it on your own machine - and yes, I know that the results on different machines can vastly differ.
Off course "they" always say such things. That is called "advertising" and is of the same type as "the fastest browser on earth" which was never 100% true too. Lynx was always faster as long as you didn't care about all of the graphical ballast in the web.
Alphons van WervenFriday, March 1, 2013 8:36:42 PM
Can I get a big "YIKES"?
As if all the Web poisoning by Google wasn't bad enough, apparently we can now look forward to Opera Ads and Opera Analytics topping the blocklists of e.g Privoxy, Ghostery etc.
sirnh1Friday, March 1, 2013 10:26:41 PM
Opera must have been planning all this for a while now, the least they could do is tell their (former)-loyal users exactly what will be dumped.
Here is what we know: * widgets got dropped * unite got dropped * Torrent got dropped on mac * irc got dropped on mac * Dragonfly will be dropped with the move to webkit * Seeing the 'opera ice' video on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkgMAPEXUP0 means that (for opera mobile) "opera turbo" gets renamed as "off-rode mode" and can either be 'ON' or 'OFF' (sounds like the 'OFF while on WIFI' might get removed and cause confusing on people that don't know the name change. And after reading http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57571325-78/opera-overhaul-webkit-based-android-browser-due-q2/ I get the feeling that they try to advertise it as a 'NEW' feature )
As the torrent and irc are already removed from mac, it's probably a matter of time before torrent and irc are dropped on windows and linux too .
Here is what we want to know: * Webkit has problems handling many tabs. Will opera fix that? * What other features will be dropped? * Will the current engine be released as open-source (the stuff they can't open-source for legal reasons could be made available as a separate library or something)
* Why didn't they just open-source their browser (as much as possible)? I'm sure that lot's of people would suddenly start to use opera. When asking why people aren't using opera, the 2 most common reasons are usually: 1) they never heard of it 2) they know opera, and want to use it but only when it goes open-source.
The move to webkit doesn't fix the first problem and since opera will use the webkit engine, there is little to no reason to not just stay on chrome (any new feature in opera will most likely end up as an extension there anyhow).
Originally posted by skysmurf:
apparently we can now look forward to Opera Ads and Opera Analytics topping the blocklists of e.g Privoxy, Ghostery etc.
And the "funny" thing is that the blogs on my.opera.com don't even have ANY kind of analytics (just a most useless number telling you the 'total' amount of visits )
But other then that, I've been looking into other (free) mailclients. But can't find any good one. (And thunderbird isn't an option as it's development was stopped and I will NOT keep my email in the cloud)
Stephan Robert SevenyolnSaturday, March 2, 2013 4:00:44 AM
Originally posted by MossMan:
I will be very, very, very annoyed if M2 is dropped. My wife is on Thunderbird (following a couple of versions when M2 indexing had some issues) - so if even that mailer is stagnating, where does that leave me? I am *not* going to leave all my mail in the cloud - so don't anyone suggest using GMail, etc.
Are there any good, innovative, non-bloated mailers still active out there? I believe we chose Thunderbird for my wife since it seemed to be the best option at the time, but now even that might not be a long-term solution...
kMail works OK.
Michael A. Puls IISaturday, March 2, 2013 6:45:18 AM
Originally posted by stephansevenyoln:
kMail works OK.
Sylpheed and Claws Mail work great. They don't support IDLE for IMAP though, which means you only get new messages at the next automatic check interval instead of right away.
Also, if you want to use traditional IMAP deleting where you mark messages as \Deleted and expunge them instead of using an IMAP trash folder, they don't have any UI for that really. Thunderbird has that problem too, but it's not as bad.
Thunderbird can do lots of things like M2. You just have to now how to use filters, tags, saved searches and the "what views to search in" options for saved searches (and time to manually set things up) to accomplish it. About the only thing Thunderbird doesn't do is index views so you can search for them faster. Instead, Thunderbird re-executes a saved search each time you open the view for it, which makes Thunderbird slower. But, since Thunderbird doesn't index, you don't have to worry about things getting messed up as much. There's an extension you need for Thunderbird to reorder views in the folder list pane though.
woj-tekSaturday, March 2, 2013 8:20:01 AM
Originally posted by stephansevenyoln:
kMail works OK.
on linux...
Originally posted by burnout426:
Sylpheed and Claws Mail work great. They don't support IDLE for IMAP though,
Which basically means that they don't work great... the reason I fell in love with m2 was brilliant handling of IDLE...
mubaidrSaturday, February 23, 2013 4:48:00 PM
Originally posted by vux777:
Not next month, its just 2 days away!
zarathosSaturday, February 23, 2013 5:30:24 PM
Originally posted by oldawy:
Because browser users dont know and dont care about engine in their browser. They "care" about what is cool and most advertized. So Safari for iOS, IE for most normal Windows users, Firefox for most "not-normal" Windows users.
Opera moving on webkit wont make it popular. It will be just Opera on webkit. Opera that is not very popular now. You really think that common Joe will jump on Opera because of webkit? He wont know what webkit is. He knows, that his Apple has Safari (so it has to be cool cause iWhatever is cool), that IE is part of MS on his desktop/laptop (so it has to be good), he saw adverts of Chrome (Google - da best search engine, so Chrome from that has to be good).
And Opera? It's the place whre you go to hear music and watch people in weird dresses? Opera on webkit? What's webkit... oh, therewill be web in Opera? Cool, I could twitt about the opera I watch. Perhaps hear some net radio. Great. Opera with net - cool thing.
Opera is a browser for people who know what they want from browser, not for those who want to browse the net and watch movies. Or better to say: it was for such people. Now it will be just another webkit monster.
LinuxMint7Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:21:26 PM
Originally posted by zarathos:
I totally agree with this, And lol'd at it too, It's so sad but so true, Sadly.
woj-tekSaturday, February 23, 2013 7:29:16 PM
Originally posted by mubaidr:
It won't be released, it will be presented...
mubaidrSaturday, February 23, 2013 7:49:14 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Thats strange
AbandonShip?Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:46:27 AM
Originally posted by mubaidr:
better with patience ( THE real actual) Opera with webkit hearth than a fast rushed "yet an other" Chrome-Copy
mubaidrSunday, February 24, 2013 7:10:18 AM
Originally posted by masterofopera:
I know desktop version will take long, i was talking about Android version that is might be released this 25th.
YongShunSunday, February 24, 2013 8:22:32 AM
I hate Chrome's loading of tabs that takes a few seconds before it redraws the pages when you have more than 5 tabs open.
Opera used to be able to handle it, until the recent versions it became a bit crappy. but still fairs much better than chrome.
smooth scrolling on opera honestly is the best for text on opera compared to chrome.
lastly, i can't live without PANELS!
Constantine VesnaSunday, February 24, 2013 1:25:32 PM
As for desktop, anything else, but "fit-to-width" and .oex extensions, is not confirmed to be cut. (We can expect torrent client, irc chat and dragonfly to be killed, but nothing is confirmed yet).
Yandex Browser (Chromium clone) uses Opera Turbo, so i don't see particular reason to why some nice features of Opera cannot migrate to the Chromium version.
tl;dr: there is no point in bashing Opera or demanding anything before we see the product. Because we have not seen neither features, nor bugs. And development has started in early 2012, so most important choises were already done by this time.
netwolfSunday, February 24, 2013 3:10:43 PM
Originally posted by Constantine Vesna:
Source?
(not because I don't trust you, just out of interest and because there are hardly any official infos about - well - anything...)
ahoj1234Sunday, February 24, 2013 4:26:31 PM
Originally posted by netwolf:
official Opera's conference. (ok, maybe an unofficial conference - they pull it back and the video from it has under copyright)
but unofficial duplicate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XnWaxmDUUo
and tomorrow we all will have more infos
sirnh1Sunday, February 24, 2013 11:24:31 PM
Originally posted by ahoj1234:
Even IE is more advanced than that...
I'm now hoping that none of those 'features' come to the desktop and also that the animations can be turned off, as I want to close a page instantly or go to another page instantly and not wait 2 seconds for some stupid animation to kick in...
Switching to a different firefox (on my android) in 5, 4, 3 ... done.
MossManMonday, February 25, 2013 7:08:43 AM
Originally posted by ahoj1234:
Well that... didn't really excite me at all.Michael ThompsonMonday, February 25, 2013 7:31:42 AM
Originally posted by MossMan:
Agree, I actually disliked it.
ahoj1234Monday, February 25, 2013 9:41:42 AM
Originally posted by sirnh1:
Me too. But these couldn't work on desktop. Try to imagine "back"... mouse on 23" monitor for visual back etc... this is for mobiles/tablets.
Originally posted by MossMan:
I am exited and interested
Tomáš PavlíkMonday, February 25, 2013 9:57:34 AM
netwolfMonday, February 25, 2013 10:02:01 AM
s/ashMonday, February 25, 2013 11:08:12 AM
Originally posted by netwolf:
this! +1
Do not make Opera a-la-Windows8 style.
MossManMonday, February 25, 2013 11:48:07 AM
Sorry Huib, but apart from adding some swiping & animation to the back/forward, security warning and adding-to-speed-dial/tabs(*) your idea seems like a big dumb-down to me.
(*) Especially tabs! You're going to remove normal multi-tabbed browsing... really?!?!?!?!?!?!§,§?!,k§,!?!,!,!,!,§,ui§MopK!
In contrast, I've already found that I would like more of Opera's current desktop control in Opera Mobile (content-blocking, better password management, etc.). It already feels too crippled for my taste and you're just going to take away the relatively few "buttons" we currently have!
vux777Monday, February 25, 2013 4:13:36 PM
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/25/opera-spins-off-its-advertising-business-into-opera-mediaworks-making-opera-easier-to-acquire/
G-BojkoMonday, February 25, 2013 5:05:05 PM
Edit: Just have checked it. It's working! Good news.
So, along other things update their SVG support.
Michael FadelyMonday, February 25, 2013 6:53:14 PM
Originally posted by Azrael1:
I guess I can't argue with this, but at the very least I doubt that it will be unfamiliar to Opera users, and I also doubt that they won't port over some of its core productivity features. In the end, if there's one thing I care about, it's that.
I'll be honest here: Opera's performance isn't what it used to be--or rather, it's better, but... less consistent. (I sure love it when my browser uses 1GB of RAM even though it hasn't been doing anything but sitting in the background, with or without extensions)
If it weren't for the fact that I like its various features which have yet to be sufficiently replicated in some other browser, I'd probably be using Chrome already. If switching to webkit is going to allow them to focus on making a better shell for an engine that they don't have to worry about (as much, as they clearly stated they'd be doing some development on it too), then more power to them.
QuHnoMonday, February 25, 2013 8:35:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfKCZrJg-g
An Opera employee explaining the Webkit based Opera Mobile for Android to a customer.
woj-tekMonday, February 25, 2013 9:13:18 PM
is it me or does it look very chrome-like, except for the Opera logo in the upper right corner?! O_x
Constantine VesnaMonday, February 25, 2013 11:23:07 PM
Originally posted by QuHno:
He sounds like @brucelTomáš PavlíkTuesday, February 26, 2013 1:06:28 AM
Imagine Chromium with "O" logo and icon.
I'd rather disconnect internet for good then
DanielTuesday, February 26, 2013 6:48:43 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
No, it's not just you... I fear the desktop version will also look like chrome with an opera-icon in its upper right corner.oldawyTuesday, February 26, 2013 9:27:35 PM
it will be really disappointing if it was another chrome i am getting worried all the sudden
AlexWednesday, February 27, 2013 1:53:49 AM
P.S. although WebKit is a better engine, Gecko would be a more suitable choice for Opera if you firmly decided to "outsource" the rendering engine development. At least it would have kept your reputation of an independent developer.
KerenSkyyWednesday, February 27, 2013 2:48:15 AM
Originally posted by vux777:
thanks.
FireFFFUUUWednesday, February 27, 2013 2:54:44 PM
Originally posted by lekso81:
A change of this kind can only be justified for a technical improvement. Improvements subjective/political/religious shouldn't matter. Furthermore, if the desire was to kept a reputation of independence, then don't change was the option.
From any point of view, Gecko is the worst option. Has serious issues memory leaks, probably unresolved entirely or completely unsolved, in addition is "non-independent" because is developed by a single corporation, while Webkit is developed by a group of corporations. Also Mozilla doesn't shine by developed good software, the fact that for 10 years and 20 versions have a slow boot software, memory leaks, lack of features, being behind the standards, high resource consumption, lag, "Firefox has frozen", "Firefox is not responding", etc, while they have enjoyed having many millions of dollars, speaks about bad software developed.
Of course (some people) by being "Mozilla" always maintain an image of being the good guys, but objectively, technically are a bad choice.
EricJHWednesday, February 27, 2013 7:54:15 PM
flatterWednesday, February 27, 2013 9:15:13 PM
http://browser.yandex.ru
QuHnoWednesday, February 27, 2013 9:24:56 PM
Originally posted by EricJH:
Startup time was reduced and overall speed was increased drastically too. Even the latest Chromium starts slower than Firefox and reacts slower on user input on my machine.
FransWednesday, February 27, 2013 10:42:07 PM
Originally posted by QuHno:
+1
Not to mention Firefox seldom crashes or freezes on me, while Chromium is almost guaranteed to, although it seems to have improved slightly over the past year. Yet I use Firefox far more often.
In any case, just like Chromium != Webkit, Firefox != Gecko. K-Meleon and for that matter Firefox Mobile show that Gecko can perform well.
AlexWednesday, February 27, 2013 11:50:23 PM
Originally posted by FFFUUUFox:
On one hand, if you read the above in the thread referenced techcrunch article then it seems to be a budget-motivated decision - probably, media business is considered to be more profitable than the browser development. On the other hand, press release by Bruce Lawson looks honest, so we'll see. Will Opera stay same Opera as we love it - this is a another question.EDIT: Just found this article: http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/18/opera-shrinks-in-house-developer-team-as-it-prepares-shift-to-webkit/
"Digi.no reports that a team of around 100 Opera developers in its Core Technology division has shrunk by more than 90 positions, with “a large contingent” taking a severance package before Christmas — “including veterans Yngve Pettersen, André Shultz and Lasse Magnussen” — and a further 50 to 70 taking redundancy in January."
Looks like the most of the core development team has been slashed and Opera will just concentrate on building additional "services", so yes, to become sort a media company. This is sad
QuHnoThursday, February 28, 2013 7:16:27 AM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
yeah, but we will get Chromium:
(quote from the blog post above to point it out)
So while a webkit based browser can indeed be very fast as you can see if you use the webkit engine in Lunascape Orion (a highly configurable triple engine browser) it could be possible that Opera will be not...
FireFFFUUUThursday, February 28, 2013 9:27:27 PM
Originally posted by EricJH:
Originally posted by QuHno:
The same thing they have said since Firefox exist.
I stopped using Firefox when I got tired of hearing it in all "the latest version".
Also I know that when a new version, all people repeat and believe the told by the Mozilla's advertising (very good publicity machine, by the way).
The placebo has made that Firefox has "resolved" the problems lots of times.
By the way, the memory leaks weren't only because the extensions (the eternal scapegoat), about a year ago also (finally) admitted that it was because his Gecko and javascript engine. Of course, they say they "have resolved".
Anyway, even if they have been resolved this time, it happened "yesterday", Do you really trust a development team whose product-star was really defectiveCRAP for nearly 10 years and more than 10 versions?.
Originally posted by lekso81:
I understand. Therefore, as the main motiviación was budget, this occurs; if the main motivation was "independence", would not change.
EricJHThursday, February 28, 2013 10:18:57 PM
Originally posted by FFFUUUFox:
I did not suggest this. I know that memory leaks in extensions have been a problem for a long time and that got solved. It does not say anything about other memory leaks which may exist. I am not a FF user so it is not something that has my attention That's a leading question.lylijinchengFriday, March 1, 2013 8:17:50 AM
In memory of Geir Ivarsøy.
MossManFriday, March 1, 2013 9:29:43 AM
Are there any good, innovative, non-bloated mailers still active out there? I believe we chose Thunderbird for my wife since it seemed to be the best option at the time, but now even that might not be a long-term solution...
woj-tekFriday, March 1, 2013 10:24:22 AM
actually I believe there is not - from all my test either M2 or Thunderbird... the latter is not developed anymore and the former may be dropped :| and yes - "web apps" sucks big time :|
QuHnoFriday, March 1, 2013 11:27:14 AM
Originally posted by FFFUUUFox:
Just for clarification:
Not "they" have said it, I wrote it here after I tested it while I was looking for viable alternatives if the new w****t Opera should fail for me and I wrote "on my machine".
The only way to get data that are relevant to you is to test it on your own machine - and yes, I know that the results on different machines can vastly differ.
Off course "they" always say such things. That is called "advertising" and is of the same type as "the fastest browser on earth" which was never 100% true too. Lynx was always faster as long as you didn't care about all of the graphical ballast in the web.
J.F. HarringtonFriday, March 1, 2013 6:21:16 PM
http://www.zdnet.com/opera-spins-off-ad-business-quietly-realigns-structure-on-buyout-talk-7000011776/
Alphons van WervenFriday, March 1, 2013 8:36:42 PM
As if all the Web poisoning by Google wasn't bad enough, apparently we can now look forward to Opera Ads and Opera Analytics topping the blocklists of e.g Privoxy, Ghostery etc.
sirnh1Friday, March 1, 2013 10:26:41 PM
Here is what we know:
* widgets got dropped
* unite got dropped
* Torrent got dropped on mac
* irc got dropped on mac
* Dragonfly will be dropped with the move to webkit
* Seeing the 'opera ice' video on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkgMAPEXUP0 means that (for opera mobile) "opera turbo" gets renamed as "off-rode mode" and can either be 'ON' or 'OFF' (sounds like the 'OFF while on WIFI' might get removed and cause confusing on people that don't know the name change. And after reading http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57571325-78/opera-overhaul-webkit-based-android-browser-due-q2/ I get the feeling that they try to advertise it as a 'NEW' feature
As the torrent and irc are already removed from mac, it's probably a matter of time before torrent and irc are dropped on windows and linux too
Here is what we want to know:
* Webkit has problems handling many tabs. Will opera fix that?
* What other features will be dropped?
* Will the current engine be released as open-source (the stuff they can't open-source for legal reasons could be made available as a separate library or something)
* Why didn't they just open-source their browser (as much as possible)? I'm sure that lot's of people would suddenly start to use opera. When asking why people aren't using opera, the 2 most common reasons are usually:
1) they never heard of it
2) they know opera, and want to use it but only when it goes open-source.
The move to webkit doesn't fix the first problem and since opera will use the webkit engine, there is little to no reason to not just stay on chrome (any new feature in opera will most likely end up as an extension there anyhow).
Originally posted by skysmurf:
And the "funny" thing is that the blogs on my.opera.com don't even have ANY kind of analytics (just a most useless number telling you the 'total' amount of visits
But other then that, I've been looking into other (free) mailclients. But can't find any good one. (And thunderbird isn't an option as it's development was stopped and I will NOT keep my email in the cloud)
ugly95Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:03:23 AM
Originally posted by sirnh1:
The browser shown in that video from MWC was not Opera Ice. According to Haavard's Twitter account
Stephan Robert SevenyolnSaturday, March 2, 2013 4:00:44 AM
Originally posted by MossMan:
kMail works OK.Michael A. Puls IISaturday, March 2, 2013 6:45:18 AM
Originally posted by stephansevenyoln:
Sylpheed and Claws Mail work great. They don't support IDLE for IMAP though, which means you only get new messages at the next automatic check interval instead of right away.
Also, if you want to use traditional IMAP deleting where you mark messages as \Deleted and expunge them instead of using an IMAP trash folder, they don't have any UI for that really. Thunderbird has that problem too, but it's not as bad.
Thunderbird can do lots of things like M2. You just have to now how to use filters, tags, saved searches and the "what views to search in" options for saved searches (and time to manually set things up) to accomplish it. About the only thing Thunderbird doesn't do is index views so you can search for them faster. Instead, Thunderbird re-executes a saved search each time you open the view for it, which makes Thunderbird slower. But, since Thunderbird doesn't index, you don't have to worry about things getting messed up as much. There's an extension you need for Thunderbird to reorder views in the folder list pane though.
woj-tekSaturday, March 2, 2013 8:20:01 AM
Originally posted by stephansevenyoln:
on linux...
Originally posted by burnout426:
Which basically means that they don't work great... the reason I fell in love with m2 was brilliant handling of IDLE...