I'm okay with POP - in fact I prefer it (easier to permanently pull messages off the server and store locally). Unfortunately, and rather stupidly, Opera's own FastMail services all rely on IMAP only for their free mailboxes.
woj-tekSaturday, March 2, 2013 11:32:46 AM
OT:
Originally posted by MossMan:
I'm okay with POP - in fact I prefer it (easier to permanently pull messages off the server and store locally).
For the backup porposes I'm using getmail ;-)
But for day-to-day usage IMAP beats pop hands down - especially when you use e-mail in more than one place...
MossManSaturday, March 2, 2013 7:52:29 PM
POP, all peripheral devices set to "leave on server", main device set to "delete after X weeks". That's my ideal set up.
(Plus webmail for viewing on phones, tablets, other people's machines, etc.)
Constantine VesnaSaturday, March 2, 2013 10:16:45 PM
p.s.: now i wonder what features will Ice need to have, to be better than this one
oldawySunday, March 3, 2013 12:55:01 AM
I can open songs and videos while downloading them with opera i am not talking about torrents i don't know if this will work after webkit someone tell me
doveloveSunday, March 3, 2013 6:05:53 AM
Well I WAS going to swallow my pride and say I could see why Opera was a turn-coat after reading about webkit on Wikipedia .....THEN I read the last pages of comments with the originator of Opera having left. It explains the CRAZY directions Opera has taken lately and buggy releases.
It made me want to throw up... if I WANTED CHROME OR IE OR FIREFOX I would have been using it.
As someone said it looks like a sellout now to me and will just be a clone of Chrome or some other iteration.
As I've said before I will always use my desktop for SERIOUS work... this FAD of small screens and all is sheeple-land. My analogy being a leatherman tool is OK for emergencies but for a REAL tool it is useless give me the wrench instead of a play-toy.
I watched TV on a 10 inch B&W (Black and white for all of you so young) and never was so glad to get a 32" set and color and NOW people are satisfied to go back to a 6 inch...I just don't get it.
M2 is MY main reason for loving Opera also.
cnbatchSunday, March 3, 2013 11:27:08 AM
Move to Webkit, are your seriously? I think I won't use Opera any more. Two Webkit browsers are installed on my computer: Chrome and Safari, that's why I don't need another Webkit browser.
I won't upgrade to the Webkit version and I'll uninstall Opera after it's moved to Webkit. Maybe I should use Chrome as my default brwoser.
By the way, the market share of the browsers is always changing. IE's usage is growing up again, I think it proved Webkit is not panacea. UC browser, the competitor of Opera, are using "U3" as it's core. U3 is NOT Webkit! But UC's usage is growing up too!!
Anyway, I'll abandon opera after you moved to Webkit!
Khaled KhalilSunday, March 3, 2013 2:13:50 PM
Please don't just kill Presto, If you are going to abandon it please provide its source code under a free license; It won't fire back, if it (or a fork of it) ever went better than WebKit it would be still available for replacement.
EnsaladeSunday, March 3, 2013 5:39:25 PM
Childish comments everywhere
Alphons van WervenMonday, March 4, 2013 8:04:13 PM
Originally posted by Ensalade:
Childish comments everywhere
Thanks for adding another one.
Khaled KhalilWednesday, March 6, 2013 4:36:39 PM
So the just released Opera mobile beta for android incorporates WebKit, its about page also mention V8 liscence, Chromium & Darwin (!), so it seems they borrowed libraries from there too. I scores 450 and 11 bonus points on html5test.com, compared to 406 and 12 bonus for the last stable release with Presto, quite good, but I believe Presto based could also have scored better than that of 12.10 if its development wasn't stalled there. Anyway, If that move is final it won't make sense to argue, I stick to what I asked earlier: If Presto is to be abandoned on all platforms, it would be fine and appreciated if its source made available for use and further development in the open.
mtu346Wednesday, March 6, 2013 4:36:46 PM
I think it's a good decision! It will be faster, stronger and still have it's features(?)
woj-tekWednesday, March 6, 2013 5:04:38 PM
Originally posted by mtu346:
I think it's a good decision!
not really.. speaking from beta of mobile
Originally posted by mtu346:
It will be faster
beta is quite slow-ish if you go beyond 1-2 tabs...
Originally posted by mtu346:
stronger and still have it's features
they basically stripped all the features and it's now a chrome with a bit different UI... :|
Alphons van WervenWednesday, March 6, 2013 8:44:36 PM
Originally posted by mtu346:
I think it's a good decision!
With or without exclamation mark, many people here will beg to differ.
Originally posted by mtu346:
It will be faster, stronger and still have it's[sic] features(?)
Do you have anything to back up those claims, or does the question mark speak for itself?
Khaled KhalilThursday, March 7, 2013 3:45:13 PM
Originally posted by mtu346:
I think it's a good decision! It will be faster, stronger and still have it's features(?)
It loads pages faster than 12.10, but Presto based 12.10 is Significantly more responsive in zooming in & out and panning than ALL WebKit based browsers, Opera mobile beta 14 included. that's not going to change soon since it is something related to the layout engine itself, which is inferior in some aspects that Presto.
Also it doesn't do text reflow (word wrap) after zooming, which used to be a major feature many people consider using Opera over other browsers for, this one too needs some work on the core engine, though it is more feasible than abstract responsiveness.
I was loyal to opera for about 11 years now, but it seems their new policy aims to push me to be more objective regarding choosing my favorite browser, I don't guarantee that Opera browsers will be winners at the end after loosing many of their hardly achieved killer-features.
Stephan Robert SevenyolnFriday, March 8, 2013 4:07:09 AM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Originally posted by stephansevenyoln:
kMail works OK.
on linux...
Originally posted by burnout426:
Sylpheed and Claws Mail work great. They don't support IDLE for IMAP though,
Which basically means that they don't work great... the reason I fell in love with m2 was brilliant handling of IDLE...
Well then, more people should use Linux
FransFriday, March 8, 2013 9:49:09 AM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Originally posted by stephansevenyoln:
kMail works OK.
on linux...
Do you mean that KMail is buggy on Windows or that you didn't know many KDE applications work splendidly on Windows?
Khaled KhalilFriday, March 8, 2013 9:51:25 AM
Originally posted by Magister2k7:
Originally posted by Khaled-Khalil:
Also it doesn't do text reflow (word wrap) after zooming, which used to be a major feature many people consider using Opera over other browsers for, this one too needs some work on the core engine, though it is more feasible than abstract responsiveness.
Take a look at UC Browser (search the Google Play) - it does text reflow on zoom. Also it's UI and speed seems acceptable to me even on an old devices with small amount of RAM. Looks like I'll move to UC Browser in nearest time... as Opera Mobile 14 is a peace of shit compared to old good Opera.
Thank you for the recommendation, yes it do though with slightly lesser responsiveness than Presto, but it seems they are making good work on their U3 layout engine and they have faith in it.
woj-tekFriday, March 8, 2013 12:39:49 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Do you mean that KMail is buggy on Windows or that you didn't know many KDE applications work splendidly on Windows?
Latest NewsDate Headline 3rd February 2012 KDE Software Compilation 4.8.0 for Windows available
I'm quite fond of cygwin tho
FransFriday, March 8, 2013 1:51:26 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Latest NewsDate Headline 3rd February 2012 KDE Software Compilation 4.8.0 for Windows available
So does that mean KMail is or isn't buggy on Windows? I've never tried KMail, but pretty much everything I tried except for Amarok seemed to work fine. This was back in 2010 btw, so it can only have gotten better.
Originally posted by woj-tek:
I'm quite fond of cygwin tho
I find it hard to use Windows without it.
FransFriday, March 8, 2013 1:51:27 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Latest NewsDate Headline 3rd February 2012 KDE Software Compilation 4.8.0 for Windows available
So does that mean KMail is or isn't buggy on Windows? I've never tried KMail, but pretty much everything I tried except for Amarok seemed to work fine. This was back in 2010 btw, so it can only have gotten better.
Originally posted by woj-tek:
I'm quite fond of cygwin tho
I find it hard to use Windows without it.
woj-tekFriday, March 8, 2013 2:13:18 PM
SOT:
Originally posted by Frenzie:
So does that mean KMail is or isn't buggy on Windows? I've never tried KMail, but pretty much everything I tried except for Amarok seemed to work fine. This was back in 2010 btw, so it can only have gotten better.
Well, sometimes lack of update means going backwards because world keep constantly changing My biggest gripe with kMail was, from my Arch experience, nececity for nepomuk/akonadi depencency which run mysql in the background... =,=
Originally posted by Frenzie:
I find it hard to use Windows without it.
WIndows is quite fine without it, most of the time I use remote ssh anyway
FransFriday, March 8, 2013 4:00:16 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
My biggest gripe with kMail was, from my Arch experience, nececity for nepomuk/akonadi depencency which run mysql in the background... =,=
Are you saying the reason Akonadi kept crashing on me a few years back was for lack of MySQL?
woj-tekFriday, March 8, 2013 4:15:31 PM
<full-blown-OT>
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Are you saying the reason Akonadi kept crashing on me a few years back was for lack of MySQL?
do not know, but... I'm very happy with nepomuk/akonadi tandem nor do I use 'semantic desktop' (it's probably because of my OCD - I have uber-order on my drive and everything has it's place ) thus forcing it on me was at least annoying... and from I gather dependencies on them only got mor strict, especially in kMail...
</full-blown-OT>
Stephan Robert SevenyolnSaturday, March 9, 2013 2:25:59 AM
So now it's an argument over how well KDE apps work on Windows? Well, Kmail is much better than thunderbird but I still like having mail integrated into the browser. Seamonkey sucks. And I am [bold]so sad about losing text wrap and dragonfly[/bold]
FransSaturday, March 9, 2013 9:11:00 AM
Originally posted by Stephan Robert Sevenyoln:
And I am so sad about losing text wrap and dragonfly
Yup. Mobile debugging without DragonFly requires some kind of USB connection I understand. And it's not just text wrap; Opera zooms, loads, and scrolls much faster than, um, Opera. (That's ignoring user CSS and what not, even if it was a pain to set up.)
Mihawk90Monday, March 11, 2013 12:15:07 PM
Originally posted by Kildor:
There is no answer to the main question. What will it be for users? What`s about mouse gestures, about UI, about menus, toolbars and buttons, about wand and MDI? What`s about M2? There is no webkit-based browsers as highly customizeable as Opera. All of them are not chromium, they are cast ironums.
Nothing changes for the user. All those features you are referring to are NOT part of a rendering engine. The rendering engine is purely for rendering the page, not features.
Features are implemented in a completely different
Oh and to the above posters, who said you are loosing dragonfly? Noone did, right? Dragonfly is a feature not related to the rendering engine.
s/ashMonday, March 11, 2013 12:32:44 PM
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
Nothing changes for the user. All those features you are referring to are NOT part of a rendering engine. The rendering engine is purely for rendering the page, not features.
Features are implemented in a completely different
Oh and to the above posters, who said you are loosing dragonfly? Noone did, right? Dragonfly is a feature not related to the rendering engine.
Somehow wrong. But that doesn't matter right now, as some Opera emplyee stated that Opera will be almost completly rewritten.
FransMonday, March 11, 2013 12:40:31 PM
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
Nothing changes for the user. All those features you are referring to are NOT part of a rendering engine. The rendering engine is purely for rendering the page, not features.
The current Opera GUI is drawn entirely by Vega, which is a part of Presto. You know how the Firefox GUI is built in XUL, which exists only in Gecko? It's vaguely parallel to that.
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
Oh and to the above posters, who said you are loosing dragonfly? Noone did, right? Dragonfly is a feature not related to the rendering engine.
DragonFly depends on the Scope API in Carakan. To work with V8 it would have to be ported (if that's even possible) or the Scope API would have to be implemented in V8. But aside from such logical deductions, you must've missed the link to this tweet on page 2.
woj-tekMonday, March 11, 2013 1:28:31 PM
Originally posted by slash4real:
as some Opera emplyee stated that Opera will be almost completly rewritten.
oh, that's interesting - can you give some links?
MossManMonday, March 11, 2013 1:38:22 PM
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
Originally posted by Kildor:
There is no answer to the main question. What will it be for users? What`s about mouse gestures, about UI, about menus, toolbars and buttons, about wand and MDI? What`s about M2? There is no webkit-based browsers as highly customizeable as Opera. All of them are not chromium, they are cast ironums.
Nothing changes for the user. All those features you are referring to are NOT part of a rendering engine. The rendering engine is purely for rendering the page, not features.
Features are implemented in a completely different
Oh and to the above posters, who said you are loosing dragonfly? Noone did, right? Dragonfly is a feature not related to the rendering engine.
Sorry, you're wrong in every count!
They've already said Dragonfly is dead - so your arguments fail right there (link has been posted several times and I can't be bothered to look again).
Secondly, they've been showing betas of ICE (for tablets) and "Beta" (for mobile) which are both TOTALLY DIFFERENT UI's than the existing Mobile & Mini.
Thirdly, they have stated that the UI will be totally re-written (again, links have frequently been posted).
Fourth, as mentioned above, Vega was used for final display of all things Opera - that will probably not work with the new system and the "Chrominess" of the current Beta seems to confirm that.
ИванWednesday, March 13, 2013 9:11:01 PM
Opera !!!
Adonis @ my.opera /friendspartyworldThursday, March 14, 2013 1:31:26 AM
Unless I have seen the new different ui and worked with it, I donot want to give my evaluation yet. I doubt they will put so much energy in something new unless they can deliver what they had before. Except that some features in the past have been lost, that should be available for expert users. But redesigning the wheel just to pertain to an almost developed out idea isnot smart.
Steve ThackeryFriday, March 15, 2013 1:13:05 PM
Opera currently has three big problems (in my view):
1/ Jerky, jumpy, clunky, horrible scrolling on some web pages
2/ Hopeless at printing out complex web pages
3/ All formatting is lost when a page (or portion) is copied to the clipboard
Well Webkit address any or all of these problems?
FransFriday, March 15, 2013 5:27:01 PM
Originally posted by Steve Thackery:
Well Webkit address any or all of these problems?
If Chrome(ium) doesn't give you those issues, probably.
QuHnoFriday, March 15, 2013 7:25:20 PM
Problem 1 and 3 are almost non-issues because 1 can be solved with a simple UserCSS and 3 with a custom button.
2 is an issue in Chromium here too, the only browser that prints almost decent is IE - but even IE has issues with the crappy code of some pages.
If the page should be printed "as is" for documentary reasons there is an extension in the add-ons catalog that can do a screen shot of the complete page which can be printed afterwards.
FransFriday, March 15, 2013 8:06:59 PM
Originally posted by QuHno:
Problem 1 and 3 are almost non-issues because 1 can be solved with a simple UserCSS and 3 with a custom button.
I don't have 1 at all, and 3 is my preferred behavior. I almost always use "paste special" in Word/Writer to get text without all the formatting junk. However, I don't think the button/macro you're referring to works anymore in recent versions of Opera, because selections don't keep anymore since Opera 12 or perhaps even 11.5x or 11.6x. I never noticed myself, but I was alerted to it by someone who actually uses the feature.
Originally posted by QuHno:
2 is an issue in Chromium here too, the only browser that prints almost decent is IE - but even IE has issues with the crappy code of some pages.
Must be one of the newer versions. In my experience Firefox is the only browser with semi-decent printing, but I'd recommend a specialized solution like Prince instead.
QuHnoFriday, March 15, 2013 9:41:09 PM
The old button does not work any more, that is right - but: editable works Press the button, select the part of the page you are interested in, copy and paste into some application that can understand the formatting, done.
I hope that they activate bookmarklets (or, even better: Buttons!) in the webkit version again!
FransSaturday, March 16, 2013 8:26:00 AM
Originally posted by QuHno:
Press the button, select the part of the page you are interested in, copy and paste into some application that can understand the formatting, done.
Well sure. It's not that designMode/contentEditable doesn't work, but it takes one extra step. That can be quite a pain if one does it often. Which I don't.
Originally posted by QuHno:
I hope that they activate bookmarklets (or, even better: Buttons!) in the webkit version again!
I beg your pardon? Bookmarklets have been a feature of every browser since… I don't know, Netscape 2.
woj-tekSaturday, March 16, 2013 8:45:05 AM
Originally posted by QuHno:
I hope that they activate bookmarklets (or, even better: Buttons!) in the webkit version again!
eeee? ar you implying that they are not working right now? this comes from where exactly? did you had a test run on beta/alpha?
AFAIR even Chrome allows bookmarklets... buttons - it's not that flexible but I hope they won't kill them :|
QuHnoSaturday, March 16, 2013 12:09:02 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
eeee? ar you implying that they are not working right now? this comes from where exactly? did you had a test run on beta/alpha?
I did a short test with the beta and I couldn't find a way to make them work. Somehow speedial is not the same as bookmarks, may be there is some way to do it, but I am no regular smartphone user. I hate browsing with a microscopic screen so I didn't bother for long ... :|
Dexter LivingstonSaturday, March 16, 2013 1:30:44 PM
Open it in Opera and in IE. Scroll up and down with the scroll wheel. IE scrolls the page smoothly. Opera scrolls in jerks and jumps. It also seems to scroll at double speed, for some reason (i.e. twice the "lines per click" mouse wheel scroll setting in Windows).
Eldar FaizullinSaturday, March 16, 2013 6:54:22 PM
To some extent, but not until the stupid voting thingy on the left shows up. Also it's way jerkier and slower in Firefox. For good measure I'll check on Windows too (I'm posting this from Xubuntu 13.04).
FransSaturday, March 16, 2013 7:08:46 PM
Alright, tested in IE10 on Windows 7. It's also jerky in IE. I guess it might be the tiniest bit less jerky, but nothing worthy of mention. The simple fact is clearly that CNet has added too much junk to their page.
Steve ThackerySaturday, March 16, 2013 7:34:15 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Alright, tested in IE10 on Windows 7. It's also jerky in IE. I guess it might be the tiniest bit less jerky, but nothing worthy of mention. The simple fact is clearly that CNet has added too much junk to their page.
Well, I agree about "too much junk", but that's the way it is and the browsers are going to have to cope with the real world of poor web page design.
FWIW, it scrolls perfectly smoothly in IE10 on my machine. It's got a quad core running at 4GHz, so maybe IE's OK if you throw enough CPU power at it, whereas Opera - on the same machine - stutters and jumps noticeably.
André ZangheliniSaturday, March 16, 2013 8:38:42 PM
To some extent, but not until the stupid voting thingy on the left shows up. Also it's way jerkier and slower in Firefox. For good measure I'll check on Windows too (I'm posting this from Xubuntu 13.04).
It's smooth here in both browsers. In IE10 it's slightly smoother, but in Opera it's still very smooth. Anyway, you may try using modern scroll.
FransSaturday, March 16, 2013 11:29:16 PM
Originally posted by Steve Thackery:
Well, I agree about "too much junk", but that's the way it is and the browsers are going to have to cope with the real world of poor web page design.
And IE10 doesn't cope either. Firefox doesn't cope either. Chromium doesn't cope either. I merely can't tell whether Opera or IE10 copes better. I have to say I'm surprised IE does so well, but that aside.
Originally posted by André:
It's smooth here in both browsers. In IE10 it's slightly smoother, but in Opera it's still very smooth.
I specifically tested on my slowest netbook because that exaggerates any potential differences and performance issues. On my desktop I don't notice any slowness in any browser and that's a by now 6-year-old Core 2 Duo E6600.
I don't normally scroll in the way required to reproduce the bug* regardless. I prefer to use Page Up and Page Down.
* In the page! Not the browser.
Steve ThackerySunday, March 17, 2013 1:25:25 AM
I don't understand why my scrolling performance is apparently so different from yours. I've just installed Chrome, and can confirm that the the scrolling is way better than Opera. So, both IE10 and Chrome will scroll that page I offered without problems, whereas my Opera scrolls jerkily.
Incidentally, this isn't an issue with just my machine - I've read other people complaining about the jerky scroll in Opera.
I've found another way to demonstrate it. Load that CNET page I linked to in IE10, Chrome and Opera. This time, just press the Page Down key to scroll. In IE10 and Chrome they jump down the page instantly (not really a scroll); in Opera the page actually scrolls (i.e. it does not move to the new position instantly - the scroll bar visibly moves downwards), and the scroll is unpleasantly jumpy.
Anyway, I suspect I'm unduly sensitive to such things. The main point for me is that Chrome scrolls nicely, so if Opera picks up that behaviour I'll be happy.
Also, you can copy and paste a web page to Word (say) and still maintain most of the formatting, so that's problem number 3 fixed, too. Finally, printing is way better than Opera.
If these things really will be inherited by Opera when it moves to Webkit, then I'll be a happy person.
MossManSaturday, March 2, 2013 8:33:33 AM
woj-tekSaturday, March 2, 2013 11:32:46 AM
Originally posted by MossMan:
For the backup porposes I'm using getmail ;-)
But for day-to-day usage IMAP beats pop hands down - especially when you use e-mail in more than one place...
MossManSaturday, March 2, 2013 7:52:29 PM
(Plus webmail for viewing on phones, tablets, other people's machines, etc.)
Constantine VesnaSaturday, March 2, 2013 10:16:45 PM
Originally posted by ugly95:
..hmm, so, its also probably not webkit based ?
p.s.: now i wonder what features will Ice need to have, to be better than this one
oldawySunday, March 3, 2013 12:55:01 AM
doveloveSunday, March 3, 2013 6:05:53 AM
It made me want to throw up... if I WANTED CHROME OR IE OR FIREFOX I would have been using it.
As someone said it looks like a sellout now to me and will just be a clone of Chrome or some other iteration.
As I've said before I will always use my desktop for SERIOUS work... this FAD of small screens and all is sheeple-land. My analogy being a leatherman tool is OK for emergencies but for a REAL tool it is useless give me the wrench instead of a play-toy.
I watched TV on a 10 inch B&W (Black and white for all of you so young) and never was so glad to get a 32" set and color and NOW people are satisfied to go back to a 6 inch...I just don't get it.
M2 is MY main reason for loving Opera also.
cnbatchSunday, March 3, 2013 11:27:08 AM
I think I won't use Opera any more.
Two Webkit browsers are installed on my computer: Chrome and Safari, that's why I don't need another Webkit browser.
I won't upgrade to the Webkit version and I'll uninstall Opera after it's moved to Webkit. Maybe I should use Chrome as my default brwoser.
By the way, the market share of the browsers is always changing. IE's usage is growing up again, I think it proved Webkit is not panacea.
UC browser, the competitor of Opera, are using "U3" as it's core. U3 is NOT Webkit! But UC's usage is growing up too!!
Anyway, I'll abandon opera after you moved to Webkit!
Khaled KhalilSunday, March 3, 2013 2:13:50 PM
EnsaladeSunday, March 3, 2013 5:39:25 PM
Alphons van WervenMonday, March 4, 2013 8:04:13 PM
Originally posted by Ensalade:
Thanks for adding another one.
Khaled KhalilWednesday, March 6, 2013 4:36:39 PM
I scores 450 and 11 bonus points on html5test.com, compared to 406 and 12 bonus for the last stable release with Presto, quite good, but I believe Presto based could also have scored better than that of 12.10 if its development wasn't stalled there.
Anyway, If that move is final it won't make sense to argue, I stick to what I asked earlier: If Presto is to be abandoned on all platforms, it would be fine and appreciated if its source made available for use and further development in the open.
mtu346Wednesday, March 6, 2013 4:36:46 PM
It will be faster, stronger and still have it's features(?)
woj-tekWednesday, March 6, 2013 5:04:38 PM
Originally posted by mtu346:
not really.. speaking from beta of mobile
Originally posted by mtu346:
beta is quite slow-ish if you go beyond 1-2 tabs...
Originally posted by mtu346:
they basically stripped all the features and it's now a chrome with a bit different UI... :|
Alphons van WervenWednesday, March 6, 2013 8:44:36 PM
Originally posted by mtu346:
With or without exclamation mark, many people here will beg to differ.
Originally posted by mtu346:
Do you have anything to back up those claims, or does the question mark speak for itself?
Khaled KhalilThursday, March 7, 2013 3:45:13 PM
Originally posted by mtu346:
It loads pages faster than 12.10, but Presto based 12.10 is Significantly more responsive in zooming in & out and panning than ALL WebKit based browsers, Opera mobile beta 14 included. that's not going to change soon since it is something related to the layout engine itself, which is inferior in some aspects that Presto. Also it doesn't do text reflow (word wrap) after zooming, which used to be a major feature many people consider using Opera over other browsers for, this one too needs some work on the core engine, though it is more feasible than abstract responsiveness. I was loyal to opera for about 11 years now, but it seems their new policy aims to push me to be more objective regarding choosing my favorite browser, I don't guarantee that Opera browsers will be winners at the end after loosing many of their hardly achieved killer-features.Stephan Robert SevenyolnFriday, March 8, 2013 4:07:09 AM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Well then, more people should use LinuxFransFriday, March 8, 2013 9:49:09 AM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Do you mean that KMail is buggy on Windows or that you didn't know many KDE applications work splendidly on Windows?
Khaled KhalilFriday, March 8, 2013 9:51:25 AM
Originally posted by Magister2k7:
Thank you for the recommendation, yes it do though with slightly lesser responsiveness than Presto, but it seems they are making good work on their U3 layout engine and they have faith in it.woj-tekFriday, March 8, 2013 12:39:49 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
I'm quite fond of cygwin tho
FransFriday, March 8, 2013 1:51:26 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
So does that mean KMail is or isn't buggy on Windows?
Originally posted by woj-tek:
I find it hard to use Windows without it.FransFriday, March 8, 2013 1:51:27 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
So does that mean KMail is or isn't buggy on Windows?
Originally posted by woj-tek:
I find it hard to use Windows without it.woj-tekFriday, March 8, 2013 2:13:18 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Well, sometimes lack of update means going backwards because world keep constantly changing
My biggest gripe with kMail was, from my Arch experience, nececity for nepomuk/akonadi depencency which run mysql in the background... =,=
Originally posted by Frenzie:
WIndows is quite fine without it, most of the time I use remote ssh anyway
FransFriday, March 8, 2013 4:00:16 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
Are you saying the reason Akonadi kept crashing on me a few years back was for lack of MySQL?
woj-tekFriday, March 8, 2013 4:15:31 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
do not know, but... I'm very happy with nepomuk/akonadi tandem nor do I use 'semantic desktop' (it's probably because of my OCD - I have uber-order on my drive and everything has it's place
</full-blown-OT>
Stephan Robert SevenyolnSaturday, March 9, 2013 2:25:59 AM
Well, Kmail is much better than thunderbird
And I am [bold]so sad about losing text wrap and dragonfly[/bold]
FransSaturday, March 9, 2013 9:11:00 AM
Originally posted by Stephan Robert Sevenyoln:
Yup. Mobile debugging without DragonFly requires some kind of USB connection I understand. And it's not just text wrap; Opera zooms, loads, and scrolls much faster than, um, Opera. (That's ignoring user CSS and what not, even if it was a pain to set up.)
Mihawk90Monday, March 11, 2013 12:15:07 PM
Originally posted by Kildor:
Nothing changes for the user. All those features you are referring to are NOT part of a rendering engine. The rendering engine is purely for rendering the page, not features.
Features are implemented in a completely different
Oh and to the above posters, who said you are loosing dragonfly? Noone did, right? Dragonfly is a feature not related to the rendering engine.
s/ashMonday, March 11, 2013 12:32:44 PM
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
Somehow wrong. But that doesn't matter right now, as some Opera emplyee stated that Opera will be almost completly rewritten.FransMonday, March 11, 2013 12:40:31 PM
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
The current Opera GUI is drawn entirely by Vega, which is a part of Presto. You know how the Firefox GUI is built in XUL, which exists only in Gecko? It's vaguely parallel to that.
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
DragonFly depends on the Scope API in Carakan. To work with V8 it would have to be ported (if that's even possible) or the Scope API would have to be implemented in V8. But aside from such logical deductions, you must've missed the link to this tweet on page 2.
woj-tekMonday, March 11, 2013 1:28:31 PM
Originally posted by slash4real:
oh, that's interesting - can you give some links?
MossManMonday, March 11, 2013 1:38:22 PM
Originally posted by Mihawk90:
Sorry, you're wrong in every count!
They've already said Dragonfly is dead - so your arguments fail right there (link has been posted several times and I can't be bothered to look again).
Secondly, they've been showing betas of ICE (for tablets) and "Beta" (for mobile) which are both TOTALLY DIFFERENT UI's than the existing Mobile & Mini.
Thirdly, they have stated that the UI will be totally re-written (again, links have frequently been posted).
Fourth, as mentioned above, Vega was used for final display of all things Opera - that will probably not work with the new system and the "Chrominess" of the current Beta seems to confirm that.
ИванWednesday, March 13, 2013 9:11:01 PM
Adonis @ my.opera /friendspartyworldThursday, March 14, 2013 1:31:26 AM
I doubt they will put so much energy in something new unless they can deliver what they had before. Except that some features in the past have been lost, that should be available for expert users. But redesigning the wheel just to pertain to an almost developed out idea isnot smart.
Steve ThackeryFriday, March 15, 2013 1:13:05 PM
1/ Jerky, jumpy, clunky, horrible scrolling on some web pages
2/ Hopeless at printing out complex web pages
3/ All formatting is lost when a page (or portion) is copied to the clipboard
Well Webkit address any or all of these problems?
FransFriday, March 15, 2013 5:27:01 PM
Originally posted by Steve Thackery:
If Chrome(ium) doesn't give you those issues, probably.
QuHnoFriday, March 15, 2013 7:25:20 PM
2 is an issue in Chromium here too, the only browser that prints almost decent is IE - but even IE has issues with the crappy code of some pages.
If the page should be printed "as is" for documentary reasons there is an extension in the add-ons catalog that can do a screen shot of the complete page which can be printed afterwards.
FransFriday, March 15, 2013 8:06:59 PM
Originally posted by QuHno:
I don't have 1 at all, and 3 is my preferred behavior. I almost always use "paste special" in Word/Writer to get text without all the formatting junk. However, I don't think the button/macro you're referring to works anymore in recent versions of Opera, because selections don't keep anymore since Opera 12 or perhaps even 11.5x or 11.6x. I never noticed myself, but I was alerted to it by someone who actually uses the feature.
Originally posted by QuHno:
Must be one of the newer versions. In my experience Firefox is the only browser with semi-decent printing, but I'd recommend a specialized solution like Prince instead.
QuHnoFriday, March 15, 2013 9:41:09 PM
editable works
Press the button, select the part of the page you are interested in, copy and paste into some application that can understand the formatting, done.
... or as bookmarklet:
I hope that they activate bookmarklets (or, even better: Buttons!) in the webkit version again!
FransSaturday, March 16, 2013 8:26:00 AM
Originally posted by QuHno:
Well sure. It's not that designMode/contentEditable doesn't work, but it takes one extra step. That can be quite a pain if one does it often. Which I don't.
Originally posted by QuHno:
I beg your pardon? Bookmarklets have been a feature of every browser since… I don't know, Netscape 2.
woj-tekSaturday, March 16, 2013 8:45:05 AM
Originally posted by QuHno:
eeee? ar you implying that they are not working right now? this comes from where exactly? did you had a test run on beta/alpha?
AFAIR even Chrome allows bookmarklets... buttons - it's not that flexible but I hope they won't kill them :|
QuHnoSaturday, March 16, 2013 12:09:02 PM
Originally posted by woj-tek:
I did a short test with the beta and I couldn't find a way to make them work. Somehow speedial is not the same as bookmarks, may be there is some way to do it, but I am no regular smartphone user. I hate browsing with a microscopic screen so I didn't bother for long ... :|
Dexter LivingstonSaturday, March 16, 2013 1:30:44 PM
Steve ThackerySaturday, March 16, 2013 6:29:26 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
I bet you do. Take a look at this page:
http://www.zdnet.com/amid-great-expectations-the-samsung-galaxy-s4-has-arrived-7000012629/?s_cid=e552
Open it in Opera and in IE. Scroll up and down with the scroll wheel. IE scrolls the page smoothly. Opera scrolls in jerks and jumps. It also seems to scroll at double speed, for some reason (i.e. twice the "lines per click" mouse wheel scroll setting in Windows).
Eldar FaizullinSaturday, March 16, 2013 6:54:22 PM
FransSaturday, March 16, 2013 6:57:30 PM
Originally posted by Staiger:
To some extent, but not until the stupid voting thingy on the left shows up. Also it's way jerkier and slower in Firefox. For good measure I'll check on Windows too (I'm posting this from Xubuntu 13.04).
FransSaturday, March 16, 2013 7:08:46 PM
Steve ThackerySaturday, March 16, 2013 7:34:15 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Well, I agree about "too much junk", but that's the way it is and the browsers are going to have to cope with the real world of poor web page design.
FWIW, it scrolls perfectly smoothly in IE10 on my machine. It's got a quad core running at 4GHz, so maybe IE's OK if you throw enough CPU power at it, whereas Opera - on the same machine - stutters and jumps noticeably.
André ZangheliniSaturday, March 16, 2013 8:38:42 PM
Originally posted by Frenzie:
It's smooth here in both browsers. In IE10 it's slightly smoother, but in Opera it's still very smooth.
Anyway, you may try using modern scroll.
FransSaturday, March 16, 2013 11:29:16 PM
Originally posted by Steve Thackery:
And IE10 doesn't cope either. Firefox doesn't cope either. Chromium doesn't cope either. I merely can't tell whether Opera or IE10 copes better. I have to say I'm surprised IE does so well, but that aside.
Originally posted by André:
I specifically tested on my slowest netbook because that exaggerates any potential differences and performance issues. On my desktop I don't notice any slowness in any browser and that's a by now 6-year-old Core 2 Duo E6600.
Originally posted by André:
I don't normally scroll in the way required to reproduce the bug* regardless. I prefer to use Page Up and Page Down.
* In the page! Not the browser.
Steve ThackerySunday, March 17, 2013 1:25:25 AM
Incidentally, this isn't an issue with just my machine - I've read other people complaining about the jerky scroll in Opera.
I've found another way to demonstrate it. Load that CNET page I linked to in IE10, Chrome and Opera. This time, just press the Page Down key to scroll. In IE10 and Chrome they jump down the page instantly (not really a scroll); in Opera the page actually scrolls (i.e. it does not move to the new position instantly - the scroll bar visibly moves downwards), and the scroll is unpleasantly jumpy.
Anyway, I suspect I'm unduly sensitive to such things.
Also, you can copy and paste a web page to Word (say) and still maintain most of the formatting, so that's problem number 3 fixed, too. Finally, printing is way better than Opera.
If these things really will be inherited by Opera when it moves to Webkit, then I'll be a happy person.